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Post by snarfa on Oct 10, 2004 20:48:17 GMT -5
I've been reading everyone's interpretation. Here's my initial reaction to the film. Many Buddhists believe that the spirit lingers in the physical world for about 28 days. I thought the whole movie was simply Donnie's spirit lingering (perhaps in a tangent univers) and that Frank was the "dark" part of himself that he needed to separate from before his spirit could be released from his physical life. This theory doesn't really incorporate the whole time travel thing but it does reflect the significance of the baby glasses ("dark" images we need to be human); the "Last Temptation of Christ"; and the story about the rabbits ("the rabbits are reallly us"). Did anyone else get this out of it?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 10, 2004 21:01:48 GMT -5
Interesting way to look at it... Although that wasn't the intent of the movie, according to all the evidence, including the director's commentary... But interesting none the less...
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Post by snarfa on Oct 11, 2004 15:53:02 GMT -5
hey rightfielder 21--thanks for your condescending approval...
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 16:09:23 GMT -5
No need for that, Snarfa: everyone's welcome, and everyone's postulations and theories get equal play here. So no need for being snide.
In fairness, your parallel is interesting and has been proposed in other ways before (minus the Buddhist-specific allusion) ... there's certainly room to see Donnie's experiences as a moments-before-death process of coming to terms, reaching peace, or even as a purgatory-style trip (to muddy the theological analogy) through his darker side -- a carthasis before he moves on to nirvana. And, for the record, I am personally drawn to that "it all happens in a second, and it's his psyche processing his life before it's gone" approach. I find it intriguing.
But not much about the movie's texts (film, PoTT, director's commentary) suggests that this is how Kelly meant for the film to be interepreted. Not much: there is the interview with Kelly in which he references the Twilight Zone episode darkmystic mentions at the start of this thread ... but I've always read that as his typically noncommital "maybe it's this -- but it could be something else, because I don't want to alienate fans" response. His strongest, most emphatic answers to questions that I've read have been in support of Donnie as a superhero in a sci-fi story, a guy who actually saves the world through heroism and sacrifice.
If you believe strongly in your proposal (that is, if you think what you're putting forth is more than an interesting parallel, which RF ackowledged it was, and believe instead it's a viable and intended interpretation of the movie), it might help to offer a more detailed explanation for the connection or you're drawing -- or further evidence for it.
Our community relies on civility and respect, but neither is enforcible but by each individual on him/herself. Let's all contribute and be kind.
edit: added missing line space
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 16:18:30 GMT -5
hey rightfielder 21--thanks for your condescending approval... It wasn't condescending at all... I thought it was very interesting way to look at the movie, although that wasn't the intent... Sorry you took it that way...
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Post by gretchen on Oct 11, 2004 16:53:00 GMT -5
snarfa i think that's really a lovely way to see it... and really guys, who are we to say what the intent of the film is? we don't REALLY know. we think we know from the evidence we've gathered, but it does seem snarfa's idea also has some evidence of possibility. prov says: everyone's welcome, and everyone's postulations and theories get equal play here. yeah... even GF....
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Post by Terp on Oct 11, 2004 17:28:10 GMT -5
You all seem to assume that there is only one Frank. It seems obvious to me that Frank the Rabbit and Frank the human are two completely different concienses (sp)
Frank obviously wasn't a master of time travel before he was shot. Frank the Rabbit doesn't act anything like Frank the Person.
Donnie knew he had to shoot Frank so that "He" could come back and help him, which makes me think Frank's body was possessed by some sort of inter-dimensional being.
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Post by gretchen on Oct 11, 2004 17:37:01 GMT -5
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh terp....
you might want to do a little search and reseach before you make a general comment about what we all think, which might offend someone such as myself.
as I MYSELF have stated multiple times before, frank the BR and frank the person are two entirely different entities. we know this.
we also know, that frank the BR was completely able to appear only to donnie, translocate himself, and knew the 'master plan'. which allows us to know that he is not human, and most definitely a higher being.
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 17:42:43 GMT -5
I'm with Gretch on this one...
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 18:11:54 GMT -5
Ditto. I think we're all pretty clear on the difference between alive Frank and Frank the MD.
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Post by terp on Oct 11, 2004 18:29:06 GMT -5
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh terp.... you might want to do a little search and reseach before you make a general comment about what we all think, which might offend someone such as myself. as I MYSELF have stated multiple times before, frank the BR and frank the person are two entirely different entities. we know this. we also know, that frank the BR was completely able to appear only to donnie, translocate himself, and knew the 'master plan'. which allows us to know that he is not human, and most definitely a higher being. I was only half way thru the thread when I typed that. You seemto be the only one that has mentioned this tho. Did you ever think that Donnie's pills being placebos could have something to do with Frank's powers? What did Frank actually do that was super-natural? Not what did Donnie see him do, but what did he do?
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Post by gretchen on Oct 11, 2004 18:36:22 GMT -5
donnie's pills being placebos basically prove that frank the br was supernatural.
he was not a hallucination.
he was able to appear only to donnie, and also appear in the mirror. that's pretty supernatural. we don't really see anything else that frank the br does, because he is in a way not really there. but he does guide donnie, push and mold him toward what donnie must do. he posesses donnie in a way, and 'makes' him flood the school and burn down the house.
hence "they made me do it" and when he asks frank "why did you make me flood the school?"
that kinda sucked lol... boys?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 18:38:44 GMT -5
I was only half way thru the thread when I typed that. You seemto be the only one that has mentioned this tho. Did you ever think that Donnie's pills being placebos could have something to do with Frank's powers? What did Frank actually do that was super-natural? Not what did Donnie see him do, but what did he do? You must not have gotten to my posts yet... I don't think that his pills would have anything to do with it... I would recommend taking a look at the PoTT... This site has a very well organized copy... Take note to the "Manipulated Dead" (Frank) and Manipulated Living (Donnie) parts... It may help... www.tonystuff.co.uk/darko-time.htmEdited for Gretchen's "sucking" The pills being placebos only strengthens the position that Donnie did not simply imagine Frank... Frank the bunny was a separate entity from Frank the teenager... Frank the bunny doesn't exist in the tangible sense, where everyone can see him... He is able to contact Donnie through Donnie's "psyche"... The PoTT also states that the living receiver has "visions and auditory hallucinations", which is his primary contact with Frank... was that any better?
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Post by terp on Oct 11, 2004 19:04:07 GMT -5
I think that what we see is the third sequence of events. The movie actually takes place in the Primary Universe.
Donnie is sitting in his bed in the Primary Universe, when an "artifact" falls through a "worm-hole" and kills him. The artifact comes from a "Tangent Universe", in which Donnie is supposed to be killed by the artifact, which is native to the TU. The artifact is supposed to kill Donnie in the TU. Donnie lives in the TU when he shouldn't. Donnie dies in the PU when he shouldn't
In the TU, Should-be-dead-Donnie has issues that you could expect from a schizo. He floods the school and burns JC's house out of juvenile delinquentcy. He meets and falls in love with Gretchen. When he has beef with some kids at school, he steals his parents gun. Frank swerves to miss the old lady and hits Gretchen. Donnie shoots him in anger. These are the events that should've happened in the PU.
By doing all these things, Donnie unknowingly set his PU self up to get hit by the artifact. (Gretchen [the poster] explains how this is so earlier in the thread)
He must do all these things again in the PU to set things as they should be and remove the artifact, but those natural events that are supposed to happen have been compromised by the presence of the artifact. This is where Frank the rabbit comes in. Frank is the body of the Frank from the TU being manipulated. He is the most blatant and direct manifestation of "God" or whatever guiding Donny to take these actions.
When Donny sees Frank get out of the car in the rabbit-suit, he understands all this.
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Post by terp on Oct 11, 2004 19:09:25 GMT -5
The end of the movie takes place in the Tangent Universe. Donnie has made things right and is killed by the engine as he should have been.
Perhaps he is smiling because he believes he can change his destructive behavior in the PU, and save Gretchen and Frank.
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