evana different one
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Post by evana different one on Jan 8, 2004 20:59:28 GMT -5
"That is the time Frank would die, and indeed his world would end"-aylnon
well, i've read everyone's thoughts on the subject...and started thinking about this particular line by aylnon....then i thought that it was correct...sort of. ok what if this...frank goes through the whole process of showing donnie what would happen if he lived, so that he would allow himself to die. frank would not do this only for his own sake...but for donnie's as well. he says that in 28 days the world will end...and maybe he meant donnie's world would end, as well as his own. because if donnie did survive....all the new things he felt(love for gretchen, the realization that his mom loved him, not to mention his sister had just been accepted to harvard...and a murderer for a brother doesn't exactly reflect a good family) would end...and his "world" would end. another thing i noticed, is that after frank runs over gretchen, and gets out of the car he says "well what were you doing in the middle of the road?" you can tell he can't believe what happened by the sound of his voice...but he's just doing what anyone would do in the situation....try to defend themself. so maybe frank feels bad about the role he would end up playing in donnie's life...and goes back to help everyone involved. sorry if this stuff has been posted before...i've only ever read this particular thread...leave me some of yalls thoughts on what i had to say
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Post by bucky on Jan 9, 2004 16:16:12 GMT -5
I'm in?
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Post by bucky on Jan 9, 2004 16:48:57 GMT -5
Okay, I'm in.
I havn't read a lot of the posts on THIS site, but I've been looking around the web for views on this film. What I find pretty annoying are all these nerdy remarks about physics, metaphysics, worm-/black holes, time travel etc.pp. as if this would have anything to do with the basic story of the film. I mean, Donnie Darko is not Star Trek, not in a million years.
I've seen the film four times, not because I wanted to uncover any underlying secrets and scientific rules (especially concerning this so-called "tangent universe"), but simply because it's one of the best films of all time. Period.
To be "frank", the truth behind Donnie Darko is plain to see. The whole film is about Donnie's hallucinatory death dance, happening only in his mind, during those few microseconds, right after the moment when he realized that he will be dead in yet another moment.
1. He is posed with a threat, namely his own death.
2. His solution to cheat death: continue with his life by ways of dreaming.
There it is, and it's the only thing a good story needs: conflict, action, counter-action.
Unconsciously of course, he knows that he cannot cheat death. That's why the exact time of "collapse" of the "tangent universe" (i.e. his death dream) is stated in the story. He tries to continue to cheat death, inventing the possibility of time travel, wormholes etc., all those nerdy things young male teenagers like to fantasize about (in other words: a load of horse manure). But eventually reality will catch up with him.
I don't know really. If you like films, you've got to love this one, because it's as archaic as drama can get. The hero, the threat, his destiny, his pathetic "counteraction" and the tragedy it implies, the inevitability of it all, his fate, the uselessness of his "virtual" actions in dreamland.
What Donnie's story says is simple: "I'm too young too die. I've never had a real life". So guys, please, get yours.
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Post by Chris T on Jan 15, 2004 4:21:45 GMT -5
Bucky,
Your post was coherent and that is cool. But i notice you didnt use the word 'God' once... so I cant take any conclusions you have about the true meaning of the movie seriously.
Also, its hard to find an underlying thought in this movie when you neglect science, religion, wormholes and time travel. All you've got left is the intense musical score, but maybe those songs just arent mainstream enough. I mean honestly if you want to be cool so bad visit the real world movie fansite.
Anyway bucky, I dont really buy into your theory. It doesnt make sense. Why would Donnie be sitting in bed laughing if he wanted to cheat death? And where did the engine come from? but you know, dont think too hard.
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Post by GREEDY on Jan 15, 2004 11:48:54 GMT -5
BUCKY life isn't that simple. one message you missed is the simple things.
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Post by Chase on Jan 15, 2004 12:33:13 GMT -5
Has anyone been to www.donniedarko.com?? The passwords are: sparrow, smurf, breathe, and rose. Read TEXTThe Philosophy of Time Travel TEXT and it will explain A LOT about the movie. You learn that Frank is one of the "manipulated dead" and that Donnie is the "living receiver". The jet engine is the "artifact".
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Post by Jay on Jan 16, 2004 23:13:44 GMT -5
Alright, first off - this is a great film and all the comments I've read have been helpful, if for no other reason than eliminating the anxiety that there are others who have watched this movie over and over trying to figure it out. I've watched it three times just this week. So here are my thoughts to add to the mix:
- Donnie is diagnosed schizophrenic, therefore there is a blur between reality and fantasy. I think this is a HUGE detail that has been overlooked in the previous comments.
- There is tremendous foreshadowing in the film. I think the Drew Barrymore character gives a huge clue when talking about Greene's book "it's supposed to be ironic". The irony in the film is that Frank saves Donnie from the engine, then leads Donnie on a path of destruction that ends in Frank's death and ultimately Donnie's death. Ironic?
- In the beginning of the film, Donnie is reading Graham Greene. Then, after hallucinations of Frank, he floods the school and then burns Jim C.'s house. Reality and fantasy are blurring. He acts out on the events that he reads about, then in his mind, believes that his imaginary friend, Frank, is responsible for making him do it.
- Frank is a hallucination. Donnie is smart, when he is not hallucinating, he realizes this is part of his mental illness. He cheats death because he was sleepwalking, then his hallucinations worsen. Frank and the engine are two separate events that Donnie blends together in his mind. He also begins more violent and destructive behavior. His psychoses is worsening. When he is lead to his parents bedroom and finds the gun, is he suicidal?
- Donnie floods the school, a prank.. other anti-social behavior is referenced in the film, including spending time in jail. Then he commits arson, much more serious. Then, I believe that towards the end, he hallucinates the details at "grandma deaths" house when he is with Gretchen. How did the two bully's from school know that he was there? It's a hallucination, that's why. Frank is a hallucination too. The car at the beginning, as well as at the end is a hallucination. I think that Donnie killed Gretchen while he was hallucinating, blamed Frank, just like he blamed Frank for making him flood the school and burn Jim's house. It is also interesting that Gretchen screams Donnies name. Later, he carries her to his house, then drives her to the place he was at when the movie started. Symbolic, as if he completed a full circle or is that he needed to be there because thats where he was when the wormhole opened and landed the engine in his room? Gretchen, who had blood on her face, does not have blood on her face anymore when he drives her to mountain. It is like he is treating her with respect, like a serial killer might. This is coupled with regret and remorse. He knows what he is doing at this point and when he see's the tornado he says, "I'm going home".
- This is where Donnie uses the time travel, by traveling back in time, he can allow himself to be in bed when the engine hits his room, killing him and stopping not only his path of destruction, but also stopping the hallucinations. In addition, it is because he burns Jims house that Kitty does not go with Sparkle motion to Starsearch, and thus leaving his mother and his sister on the airplane that loses an engine that travels through a wormhole and lands in his bed. It can be argued that by being in bed when the engine lands, that he saves Gretchens life, his mothers life and his sisters life. By traveling back in time, he essentially commits suicide. Those who are suicidal often feel a sense of euphoria when they determine a plan and a way to carry out that plan. Perhaps thats why he was laughing before he went to sleep. He used time travel to go back in time and kill himself. Ironic ? Tragic ? Genius ?
Ultimately, I think the movie is brilliant, because there is so much that you can take from it, and it challenges the viewer to think and understand the underlying meaning. I believe that all the comments I've read reflect on the symbolism of the film, which is important, but confuses the true story of the film. I think you need to separate the stories, the reality from the fantasy, and look at it as a movie that is about time travel, mental illness, teen love, family dynamics and uses humor (often dark), satire, wit, intelligence, and science to tell the story of one tragically messed up kid.
One last note to ponder..If you add the numbers that Donnie wrote on his arm after Frank told him when the world would end (28,6,42,12) you get 88, the year the film was set in. Are there any other number references you can find??
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Post by Syris on Aug 25, 2004 19:18:51 GMT -5
Jay I must admit that is a very good theory on the film, I've not heard it like that before. Also the thing about the numbers I'd neva noticed before. One thing I'd like to say is that at the end when you see the various characters when the remember things from the other world, they seem to have the opposite emotion from which they show throughout the film. Jim C shows alot of fear, The science teacher is kinda nervous, The chinese girl is actually at peace, even kinda happy. Also when the scene with Donnie laughing at the end. There is a poster on the wall with a skull, I noticed that the skull was in front of another skull and so forth. This reminded me of multiple Dimensions within another (Tangent, Reality) and the skull signifies death. So basically saying "Whatever Reality Your In, Death Will Find You" Well thats my take on everything.
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Post by Jackpot27 on Aug 25, 2004 20:49:27 GMT -5
personally, I'm starting to lean towards the whole Twilight Zone thing...there's a reference in some review about the movie I read about some short story where a guy randomly dies, and in the milliseconds before his death he constructs this imaginary situation in which his death is the result of some major heroic action he did, thus giving his death meaning
therefore I am starting to lean toward the belief that the entire "Tangent Universe" thing is the production of Donnie's imagination milliseconds before his death. A jet engine really did fall in his bedroom, and in the beirf period before his death Donnie creates this imaginary scenario in which he saves the entire universe, but as a result he has to die...thus giving his almost completely random death by a jet engine meaning
also, the ending can be easially explained by him imagining how much he will be missed by everyone after his death and how much they all loved him...it's like he created the perfect scenario in which he is a hero and everyone loves him
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Post by Doug on Sept 1, 2004 19:31:07 GMT -5
Jackpot, how would this interpretation explain the waving at the end between Donnie's mom and Gretchen and the montage of all the other characters waking up in bed and remembering their dream of the tangent universe?
thanks for your ideas!
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Post by gretchen on Sept 1, 2004 22:30:46 GMT -5
kids, if you watched the deleted and extended scenes on the dvd richard kelly CLEARLY states that the film is deeply based in and basically all about DIVINE INTERVENTION. so anyone's theory that DOESN'T include god, is just wrong. based on what kelly says.
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Doug dgtolstoyyahoocom
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Post by Doug dgtolstoyyahoocom on Sept 1, 2004 22:35:00 GMT -5
Gretchen, I've recently read interviews with kelly where he states that maybe someone in the future has figured out a way to cause a tangent universe and is trying to use donnie to save the universe i.e. a non-God interpretation of the movie. You thoughts?
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doug dgtolstoyyahoocom
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Post by doug dgtolstoyyahoocom on Sept 1, 2004 22:40:47 GMT -5
gretchen, kelly has said in recent interviews that maybe someone in the future had discovered how to create a tangent universe(not realizing the consequences, i assume) and is now manipulating donnie to save the primary universe. This would be a non-God interpretation from kelly himself. Your thoughts?
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Post by Sunshine on Sept 4, 2004 2:37:35 GMT -5
What I'm really confused about is the whole thing about Donnie being the Living Reciever chosen to send the Artifact back to the primary universe.
When he is sitting in the car with Gretchen, are they watching the world about to end because the Tangent Universe can't maintain itself for more than a few weeks (according to the Philosophy of Time Travel anyway)? Since at the end he wakes up only to be killed by the artifact that he was trying to send back, does that mean that he failed sending the artifact back to the Primary Universe? And since he ends up getting killed by that artifact that is from the future, doesn't he die in another Tangent Universe at the end? And then wouldn't someone else just be chosen as the Living Receiver in order to send the artifact back? So really, dying doesn't do much for anyone, because the problem of the artifact is still there and someone else just has to fix it.
And also, how does he end up back in time anyway? Since tangent universes are supposed to collapse into a black hole because they're unstable, is that what somehow sent him back in time?
So basically, I'm just confused.
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Post by rightfielder21 on Sept 4, 2004 13:09:57 GMT -5
In the deleted scences, Kelly says that it is a movie about divine intervention, but didn't want to bash people over the head with it, which in turn, leaves it up for interpretation....
As for the theory that Donnie imagined it all a few mili-seconds before his death before his death, I don't think I can buy it...
That is quite a complicated story to come up with, a few seconds before his death, and alot of the movie doesn't really support that theory....
When do you think he came up with it? It would have to be after the engine first made contact with the roof, because before then he would have had no idea what was coming... If I realized that a jet engine was going to crush me in a few seconds, I wouldn't be thinking about a 6 foot Bunny rabbit and time travel, I would be think , "oh shit"...
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