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Post by rightfielder21 on Sept 4, 2004 13:17:41 GMT -5
Jay, very interesting read...
I'm just curious, have you seen the deleted scene where Dr. Thurman, tells Donnie that he can stop taking his pills because they are placebos? That would lead me to believe that Dr. Thurman didn’t really believe that he was mentally ill…
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Post by gretchen on Sept 4, 2004 22:31:12 GMT -5
gretchen, kelly has said in recent interviews that maybe someone in the future had discovered how to create a tangent universe(not realizing the consequences, i assume) and is now manipulating donnie to save the primary universe. This would be a non-God interpretation from kelly himself. Your thoughts? well doug... if kelly says this then i guess we must then entertain this possibility... but i'm not feeling it's plausability... let's explore our options, or rather, donnie's. 1) he is not awoken, and simply dies when the engine falls without setting anything right. 2) he completes his task, but strays from his path and dodges the engine. 3) the events go as shown in the film. for there to even BE a future only 2 and 3 are able to happen. if 1 occurs, the PU collapses when the TU does. no PU. no future. perhaps somebody does figure out how to create a tangent universe... the problem i'm finding with this is how they are manipulating donnie, or how they even know or understand when/where/what is happening... if they are not some divine being, psychic, or have not traveled BACK to donnie's time with the tangent... the only theory i can imagine is that DONNIE HIMSELF! has created this tangent universe in order to CHANGE something. stay with me now... let's say option number 2 occurs. donnie is afraid and strays from his path, he dodges the engine and is now doomed to being and dying alone like roberta sparrow (which some believe strayed from her own path). he lives with his decision for years, until he can bear it no longer and decides to fix everything. he figures out how to create a wormhole to go back to 1988 and the day the engine fell (some people feel that the man in the red jumpsuit is donnie, but he is FAA, if donnie goes back he is himself as we see him). donnie now knows and understands the life waiting for him if he lives, and has accepted and embraced his death. this still leaves out the undeniable presence of frank the bunnyrabbit (and let's all try to remember that frank the bunnyrabbit and frank the person are entirely different entities). as many have pointed out, donnie is NOT truly schizo, and he IS seeing frank the bunnyrabbit... who is the inervention, divine or otherwise, that gets donnie out of bed to complete his task, and his guide throughout. as others have mentioned, frank the BR is able to appear ONLY to donnie, and to speak directly in donnie's mind, and to translocate himself. if a mortal human creates the tangent and is attempting to manipulate donnie, they would not be able to do it in this way. psychic manipulation? perhaps...afterall, donnie and frank the BR never come in physical contact with eachother.... suggestions uttered to him while under hypnosis, anyone?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Sept 5, 2004 7:16:57 GMT -5
It doesn't really fit in with what happened in the movie... I'll stick with my original interpretation...
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Post by gretchen on Sept 5, 2004 20:46:55 GMT -5
exactly. it doesn't. that's why i don't like it...but if kelly says it, we have to at least explore it. or he could just be fucking with us.
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Post by Kev Karko on Sept 8, 2004 0:47:43 GMT -5
I read this question by Sunshine a few posts ago, which no one really answered. So I'll repost in my own words.
Regardless of all the divine intervention interpretations and hallucination interpretations, there really is only one question that if answered will make this movie comprehendible. Where did the jet engine come from?
It could not have come from the future because in the future Donnie's fate made the jet engine fall. If he died in the past he wouldn't have been around in the future to send the jet engine back into the past.
To reiterate, if he died on Oct.2 he wouldn't have been alive 28 days later to go back to Oct. 2nd to die. So, where did the jet engine come from?
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Post by gretchen on Sept 8, 2004 12:37:16 GMT -5
the engine comes from the primary universe on oct 2nd. the rip in space time that occurs tears the engine off the plane and sends it into the tangent universe.
hence why the FAA agents don't know where the engine came from.
while there is much talk of time travel, my own interpretation is leaning further and further from it. yes he went back from oct 30th to oct 2nd, but you have to remember oct 30th was in the TU and has not yet occured in the PU, in the PU which operates on a much slower time space than the TU, it is still oct 2nd only seconds before donnie meets his demise.
what happened was donnie was traveling between parallel universes, not different times in one universe. the parallel u's operate on different space times is all, what is days in the TU is only nanoseconds in the PU.
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Post by Kev Karko on Sept 8, 2004 12:54:28 GMT -5
But if it was a parallel universe then wouldn’t there be another Donnie Darko?
Also from reading the “Philosophy of Time Travel” wasn’t he suppose to fix the tear between the primary and tangent universe. The engine still comes from the “parallel dimension/future”, so nothing was fixed, right? Wasn’t that the point of him being chosen? To keep that jet engine from going between the two universes?
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Post by gretchen on Sept 8, 2004 13:27:12 GMT -5
nope... you see the tangent is CREATED. it is a branch OFF of the primary, it doesn't exist on its own and therefore does not have it's own versions of the characters. in a way yes the tangent is/could be the future of the primary... but that would only happen if donnie dodges the engine when he returns to the primary. then we assume the events go as shown in the tangent and donnie becomes alone. but because it is only a "suggestion" perhaps of the future, and does not have its own past prior to the engine falling through, it doesn't have another version of donnie. what donnie is chosen for is to return the artifact(engine) to the primary. the rip occurs, the engine gets pulled through, this is what causes the need for the living receiver because the tangent is now unstable as it has one too many engines of such type. donnie is unable to return the exact engine that fell because it was removed by the FAA guys, and he needs a rip in space time to send it through anyway. instead, he takes it's exact replica from the tangent, coincidently the engine from the plane his mother and sister are on, and returns it to the primary. now the universes are balanced, the tangent has relieved itself and not destroyed the primary. the primary continues to move forward without collapsing. he did not have to fix the tear, the tear happens and then closes, what he did have to do was to create a NEW tear (as you see the black clouds gathering this is what he is doing, if you notice they haven't been there the whole movie so the tear had sealed) yes the engine does come from the parallel universe, BUT it is the exact replica of the engine that caused the whole fiasco in the first place and now the TU is balanced (two engines) and the PU is balanced (two engines.....minus one donnie darko). this is something that has bothered me as well, but as we see the primary continue to exist regularly we must assume everything has been set right. nice questions
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Post by cakes on Sept 8, 2004 20:17:56 GMT -5
has noone got the whole thing about burning the money = creation of their destruction, donnie dying = creation of everyone elses new futures etc
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Post by gretchen on Sept 9, 2004 21:32:05 GMT -5
yeah... kind of. i mean we have but... haven't really seen anybody talking too much about it.
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Post by Aveago on Sept 13, 2004 20:52:25 GMT -5
Here are some of my conclusions about the movie. Beware they are a little deep and complicated, but very detail oriented like the director works. If you read the directors interviews he often mentions the Twilight Zone. There is a clue.
In one of the Twilight Zone movies there is a couple stuck between the future and present. Rather than them living in the present or seeing the future they are surrounded by workers all dressed in the same color clothing. These workers are working just minutes before the present time, getting things ready for present dwellers so when they reach the future everything is in its place and no one ever wonders about things not being just right.
For example. In one scene in the twilight zone movie they show these workers spraying dust on furniture, moving things around, messing up the kitchen, spray painting the walls the appropriate colors. In essence what they are doing is constructing the future and this couple in the movie is stuck the workers time, watching them construct the future so when the present gets to the future everything will seem normal.
How this relates to Darko is there are a few times when he can see just seconds into the future and the path that these people will take prior to them taking it, thus letting him know that he can choose to take the path or not. However, the dilemma lies in the fact that Donnie does not know how to stray from the designated path as seen when he goes upstairs and finds a gun. However, he was given this experience to know that he is not alone and someone who knows all things (evident by him finding a gun where he hadn't known one was there). But Frank understood this power and how to manipulate it. He was the one who led Donnie to the gun and was using that power of pre-determined path to Frank's advantage to undo his death. This was evident when, at the end, Frank touched his eye to see that is was fine.
What do you all think? Does this make sense. It is a little deep and thought provoking.
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Post by powrplay55 on Sept 13, 2004 22:40:11 GMT -5
well, ok, ive read most of this thread and i wanna offer some thoughts. at the very end after donnie dies, when frank is feeling his eye, could that have any connection to the tangent frank who was shot in the eye and he could have ome inkling of what just occured? and for people wondering exactly how he goes back in time, his professor says just about any fast moving metal object can be a vessel for time travel, and that jet turbine was moving pretty fast at the end of that movie, . i think that yes, the same thing happened to roberta sparrow that happened to donnie, except that her life was in a continuous loop because she chose not to end it the way donnie did. represented by the mail box. (this is one of my more shakey theories). quick note about jim cunningham. does anyone think that he was the perfect example of "wearing a man suit" cuz of how he was crying at the end and unhappy with the way he was, yet he still went on doing what he thought he should be doing. and also, is their any relation to charita(sp?)'s earmuffs and donnies hood? i thoguht of a few ideas but couldnt really nail one down i liked. well, im out of breath, thoughts?
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Post by Powrplay55 on Sept 13, 2004 22:41:53 GMT -5
also, one more question, whats with the swirls on the front of the first jet engine
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Post by Powrplay55 on Sept 13, 2004 22:53:13 GMT -5
ooo, wait, i finished readin this page and were the swirls there to signify that iit was not from the normal universe?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Sept 14, 2004 5:21:10 GMT -5
at the very end after donnie dies, when frank is feeling his eye, could that have any connection to the tangent frank who was shot in the eye and he could have ome inkling of what just occured? i think that yes, the same thing happened to roberta sparrow that happened to donnie, except that her life was in a continuous loop because she chose not to end it the way donnie did. represented by the mail box. (this is one of my more shakey theories). Yes, that is correct... So you're sayingt hat Sparrow, was a Living Reciever at one time... Question... Did she replace the artifact (like Donnie putting the engine back) or she didn't and that's why she's in a loop?
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