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Post by darkmystic on Nov 3, 2003 21:29:18 GMT -5
This is one of those movies that I watched over and over and it seemed each time I watched I got more and more confused about what was going on. Each time I formed a hypothesis and then watched the movie again to see if it meshed....and it never did. It was like trying to put square pegs in round holes. So, I finally said to myself "There must be an ending, or else Richard Kelly is insane!". And that's when it hit me, he can't be insane. Its a movie that is so well put together and completely draws in the audience that it must make some sense. So I went to the source, to the man who wrote and directed it and read every article I could about Richard Kelly. I realized that each time he did an interview or commented on the film he gave hints about its meaning. The first thing I noticed is that he is obsessed with details, he constantly talks about how detailed he likes his movies to be. And I reallized....those details he so carefully constructs are actually clues that hint at a plot which is never explicitly explained. Although, the series of clues can be complex and hard to figure out, he gives us a fairly simple basic premise to work with. The key to figuring this movie out is to first understand the premise (or rules of the game) that Kelley puts forth. Once there, you can deduce what happens by carefully studying the details of the film. And btw, there's something that happens in the film that is never shown .
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 3, 2003 23:30:37 GMT -5
Ok, so the next thing I noticed in the interviews with Richard Kelly is that twice he refers to a twilight zone episode when talking about this movie. I'll let the reader find the episode, but I found the actual script for the episode he talks about on the web and I read it. (I highly suggest you do to) That's when it finally hit me. It never made sense to me when Richard Kelly said that its open to interpretation whether the events really happened or if its just a dream. You see in the twilight zone episode a man is about to be hanged, but at the last minute is saved. The entire episode is about what he does after this, but at the end we find out that this was just his imagination and everything happened in his head a split second before he was dropped.
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 3, 2003 23:31:02 GMT -5
Ok....now to the meaning. This is the premise (and its pretty basic). Every person in this world functions according to a path assigned them by God (Yes, there are overt religious overtones). Straying from this path may sometimes be possible in two ways. The first is that wormholes or portals in the fabric of space-time may allow someone to go back to a past that he already have knowlege of and thus change it. This is incredibly rare, but possible. The second is that a more common rift in space-time allows someone to see into the future and thus chose not to follow his preordained path. (Reference the conversation between the physics teacher and Donnie....it is the most important in the film). So, in the film, one or the other of these two things has happened. (or both) So what happens is that Donnie sees what happens if he does not follow his preordained path, and how the forces of nature (or God) all work to set him back to that path. These forces are very overt in Frank and Gretchen, but are present in each character in the film in some way or another. Even the school punks have a part to play. So whether Donnie actually got up and got out of bed the night he was ordained to die, or he just got a vision of what would happen if he did get out of bed does not matter. What he realizes at the end (and the reason he is laughing) is that he must follow God's plan, but that the fact that there is a God and there is a plan for him means that he is not in fact alone.
So, that is the basic premise, or ruleset, of the film. Once your there, your on your way to figure out what actually happens. I would suggest figuring it out on your own since its more fun, but if you want spoilers and clues, check out my Clues post. Good Luck.
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Post by Aylnon on Nov 20, 2003 1:32:23 GMT -5
Mystic, I read alot of your posts before posting, and I like pretty much all you have to say. I went back and checked on a few things, pretty much only two before something came to my mind. Alot of emphasis is placed on Donnie and the question of "Can he travel time? What's he meant to do?" Well, I want to skew a few perspectives. I went to the extended scenes on the DVD and something hit me. You wouldn't need the extended edition for this either, just look at the scene where Donnie first meets Frank. In a post I addressed to a friend on another forum, I asked the imprtance of the quote "Donnie Darko? It sounds like a super hero name." and wondered if that is what Donnie was to some degree. It was through his actions that he could save Gretchen's life by sacrificing his own, removing pain and loos in their memories. All she had now was a dim familiarity, but a whole new life to look for. What I now ask is there actually just less to this. After all, what interest would Frank have in Donnie? Why show him "God loves his Children", that we do not die alone, that we can do anything we want to, that we mustn't wear our "stupid man outfits". Could it be simply to seduce Donnie into returning and letting his own life end? That it was actually Frank who had indeed succeeded in time travel, and now looked to find how he could save his own life by having Donnie die? It was Donnie who shot Frank, therefore Frank's entire future lay in Donnie's hands. "28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds. That is when the world will end." That is the time Frank would die, and indeed his world would end. I could be wrong about this, but what are your thoughts?
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 20, 2003 8:59:45 GMT -5
Aylnon,
That is a very interesting and original idea. The thought that maybe Donnie killed Frank, so Frank goes back in time to undo this. Are you saying the entire manipulation of Donnie by Frank is kind of a ruse to trick Donnie into staying in bed that night so Frank can live? That's a pretty cool theory and makes Frank a much more sinister and devious character. I'd like to hear more about your theory.
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Post by Chris T on Nov 20, 2003 10:19:22 GMT -5
NO. leaving Donnie in bed would accomplish all these things. frank coercing Donnie out of bed, saving his life, so 28 days later donnie could shoot him is 'absurd'. And that doesnt explain how donnie could know what would happen and stay in bed. original idea though at least
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Post by Aylnon on Nov 20, 2003 15:49:31 GMT -5
Chris T, I thought about what you said and it did stump me at first, but then remember that Donnie is highly prone to sleep walking. Perhaps Frank knew that if he did not intervene then Donnie would leave his room before the engine fell, thereby negating his efforts. Frank needed to keep Donnie conscious so gave him a form of ultimatum. Either stay in bed and die with God, or live in Hell.
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Post by Cally on Nov 21, 2003 2:57:13 GMT -5
How do any of these ideas explain the fact that Donnie heard Frank's voice from within his room? Time-travel wouldn't make him have godlike powers, other than foresight...any ideas?
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Post by Cally on Nov 21, 2003 3:01:29 GMT -5
and another thing...if Donnie dies and prevents all of the following events from happening, there would be no cloud/funnel/wormhole thing at the end and therefor no way for the engine to get sucked back and land in their house...so he wouldn't die? I dunno, let me know
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Post by Chris T on Nov 21, 2003 10:38:21 GMT -5
yeah cally that was my point. theres more to it.
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Post by Fatty on Dec 7, 2003 16:45:52 GMT -5
I reckon the whole idea was to get Donnie out his bed and into the Tangent universe so that he could feel true love and be happy etc.
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Post by Pax on Dec 7, 2003 20:49:19 GMT -5
Aylnon, have to say, that is a pretty ill theory, Frank being much more than he seems. I don't fully agree with it, but it is still very original. As for Cally's comments, yeah, I think the same way, that if you think about the film, it presents an infinite loop. Other times I'm able to think around this, but it still seems that potentially the movie is a paradox and/or an eternal loop, that possibly Donnie does this (and has done this) many times. As I said in another post, I've heard that Richard Kelly has said Donnie may be alive in another reality, and possibly does these types of super-heroic/supernatural things in several different universes. Hence the subtle super-hero undercurrent in the movie.
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Post by Doris on Dec 11, 2003 14:05:32 GMT -5
Well just to put my views in (deep breath), I believe that Roberta Sparrow is given far too little recognition. Isn't she the living embodiment of the experiences that Donnie is having? I read a webpage that states that if Donnie can jump back in time then his life is preordained and therefore there is a God that will look after you when you die ie you won't die alone. However Roberta has achieved leaping through time and still tells Donnie "every creature dies alone". Therfore choas rules, which would explain the engine and the continuous back and forth to the mail box. If life were pre-ordained then she would know when to expect Donnie's letter becuase surely she would know when it would be arriving? Ironically Roberta, the oldest member of the cast and called "Death" escapes death, Frank narrowly missing her.
I also think that the book by Graham Greene highlights Donnies ironic choice ie if he lives for 28 days he dies, if he stays in his room he dies, the irony of destruction in both choices.
The whole baby and photo sunglasses thing also ties into this he's already dead ending, ie seeing some nice and some horrible things in the instant of death. Also in that scene comes the most important line of the film ie when that ER bloke says something along the lines of "Don't babies need darkness" The whole film's called Donnie Darko, in the dark he's learning to accept life?? Or is this just nonsense that I think works??
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everyone dies alone
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Post by everyone dies alone on Dec 13, 2003 7:22:32 GMT -5
wow that does make ALOT of sense. hmmmm my brain is thinking this all through and i agree with everything you say! YAH
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Post by Andrew on Dec 14, 2003 8:58:26 GMT -5
I just want to know, what happened to the tangent universe at the moment that Donnie sat with the dead gretchen and watched the engine fall and travel back throught time? Did it just become nothing?
And then the Donnie from 28 days earlier who is lying in bed laughing, does he remember everything from the tangent universe (he must I suspect since he is laughing)?
Sorry if this has all been discussed earlier but I just watched the movie again this morning and felt like asking a question or two. Thanks in advance
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