Why did Donnie have to die? - I figured it out.

[Bigboy]

I agree - IF he has a choice then the only reasonable choice would be to live.
However you are assuming that he knows what will happen - that he expects the engine to fall on him.

If, in the 'real' universe he has no powers [of precognition etc], and he does not know the engine is falling down on him, then he has no reason to choose to leave...

[Ayashae]

Yes, I assumed he knows what would happen to him indeed...but I guess you're right we can't know for sure if he knows it or not when he's in the PU again...

But...when he's still in the TU in the very last moments, that he sends the engine back to the PU, he does know it'll fall in his bedroom and he'd be there, or was there any other possibility?

[ProvidencePortal]

ayashae said:

when he's still in the TU, he does know it'll fall in his bedroom and he'd be there

Many people believe that's true, though not everyone thinks he has that total understanding at the end. This is part of one of the central mysteries in the movie: did Donnie have to die, and if he didn't have to, why did he anyway?

Let's say in the moment he sends the engine back, Donnie understands that he's executing a process that will send the engine back to the Primary Universe, to a spot right over his house. What complicates things is the PoTT and the Mad World montage at the end both demonstrate people forget what happened in the TU once they're returned to the PU.

So some of us think it's possible that he knew everything as he left the TU, but awoke confused, disoriented and with spotty memory in the PU. We might then conclude that he laughs because the bits and pieces he remembers seemed so real and so terrifying, but have turned out (from his perspective) to have been a dream ... then, SPLAT. Impaled living receiver.

There's also an argument (the one I find most compelling) that choice is an essential part of the Living Receiver cycle. The idea goes that, once the LR has unwound the TU, s/he will be immediately faced with a decision: die, which brings them into the heavenly fold, makes them one with the universe and gives them knowledge of God's grand plan (hinted at throughout the movie as hopes "there will be so much to look forward to," that Donnie will "know His plan" and won't "die alone"); or get up and live, forced to recall bits and pieces of the TU and LR process, have bizarre ticks and strange behaviors, and be alienated from society as they wait to become a part of the next LR's cycle. Roberta "Grandma Death" Sparrow would be an example, in this proposal, of an LR who chose to live.

Here's an old post from someone suggesting the "Sparrow chose to live and paid the price" theory: darkomovie.proboards24.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ending&thread=1093103092&page=1

As I don't believe Donnie had to die, I prefer to think Donnie chose to die at the end because doing so brings an appropriate conclusion to the cycle and ushers him in to God's great plan ... or something. That gives more weight to the rest of the story as I've come to understand it.

But of course, that's just my view. I enjoy that others' differ.

edit: added the reference link to the Sparrow as a former LR post

[Ayashae]

I agree in most things you've said ProvidencePortal, actually when I said 'donnie had to die' is because I assume Donnie's a good guy and takes the "best" decission (at least best for Gretchen (especially for her since he loves her), Frank etc...not for himself obviously, ouch! )

I've read many posts saying he chooses to die for his mother and sister (among others) but that's another question I've always had: Does Donnie ever know his mum and sister both die in the TU? He knows they're in a plane back from L.A., but why must that engine be the one he's got to send to the PU? If there's an explanation for it in the movie, I didn't got it

On the other hand, I found very interesting that theory about Sparrow; even if all the characters behave in a strange way in the TU (as said in the PoTT), her behaviour always seemed to me got some meaning I was missing...And if we accept that theory, when she tells Donnie about 'dieing alone' makes sense: Meanwhile Donnie believes in God's masterplan, Sparrow fears death (and chooses life) because she's not sure that 'masterplan' is God's. She suggests it might be God's in the PoTT, but never makes a statement of belief...right?

[Bigboy]

Do Rose and Samantha die in the TU? A plane with one engine isn't guaranteed to crash, and even if it were going to the TU 'unwinds' before it can happen anyway.

Does it even make a differenc (in the long run) if they do? Is there any reason that if, by living, Donnie is doomed to repeat his actions in the PU (thereby killing Gretchen, his mother and his sister)? I can't see that there is (Frank wouldn't be there to influence him for one thing).

Certainly I think the deaths of loved ones spur him on - it leaves him little choice but to take a chance the PoTT and Frank are real and sincere, but the idea he chooses to die to save them from a repeated history holds no water; if he can choose to die then he can choose period - there's no reason for the TU history to repeat in the PU.

I think you're on the right track with Sparrow - her experience caused her to leave the Church after all. The way the PoTT is writtn she seems to attribute the assumption that Divine Intervention is the only explanation to the world in general rather than herself, so maybe her faith was put in doubt...

[Ayashae]

I think I didn't explain my question well...What I meant is does Donnie know that his mum and sister are in the plane which the engine comes from?

And also...if he's the one who sends the engine back to the PU, why must it come from THAT plane?

[Bigboy]

Does he know that they oare on THAT plane - unknown, but I don't think it really matters.

The engine from that plane is identical to the artifact (either comes from the same plane in the PU, IS the same engine pre-time-travel, or is an original of which the artifact is a duplicate, depending on your view)

[Ayashae]

I don't think it matters...but I read he wants to save his mum and sis, and in my opinion he only knows he's gonna save Gretchen...and also Frank, but does he care much about Frank?

Gretchen is his main reason I'd say...but, as I said in other posts, their stormy love story moves me to tears

[s]

I understand the meaning and purpose of waking up Donnie instead of just letting him get hit by the jet engine... but what I don't get is Frank shows Donnie what would happen if he were not hit by the jet engine. Here's my question: Didn't the things that happened in the future only happen because Frank intervened? I mean, if Frank never told him to do those things, they never would have happened so there's no way that's how the future could have been had Donnie just continued to normally live out his life.

[Bigboy]

Those things DID happen because of Frank's influence, but they were not in 'the future' - those events happen in a separate 'tangent' universe that buds off from our own. Frank's task was to get Donnie to move the engine out of the tangent universe in order to stop that 'bud' from 'popping' and destroying this universe...

Reas around the site, visit the official donnie darko site and play it through for more insight...

[Minuteman]

Smiley said:

Is it Possible that there was no choice? Could it be possible that everything that happened in the movie was a hullucination? Or even better, an afterlife in which he did not know he was dead?
I think that donnie was killed at the beggining of the movie and the entire movie was donnie figuring out that he had died. To figure this out he had to travel backwards through his own head.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Me and a few of my friends thought this out recently and can't find a hole in it.

Yeah, just like Tim Robbins in Jacobs Ladder my friend.

[Robin]

I like to see so many people wondering about this movie.

I watched bothed the original and the dc a couple of times and here is what confuses me:

The artifact travels at the end of the movie through spacetime to the PU, but isn't it still an artifact then? Because it still comes from the future which means corruption in the 4th dimension. That would mean there is no way out of the PU -> TU loop. Maybe Donnie realises this and would that be the reason why he chose to stay in bed: To change things.
Somewhere in the movie the line 'destruction is a form of creation' comes by: Maybe this inspires Donnie to deny his destiny of the LR and let the world come to an end, to see what happens.

[Bigboy]

Quite the nihilist interpretation there - the only way to save the universe is to maintain an eternal loop - so I'll just let it die...

This does assume, however that a)the movie loops in time and b) the Artifact causes the corruption. Niether have any basis given the various literature (poTT/website)

[Robin]

I also just realised on the website there are even events occurring in 1999 in middlesex, so that excludes my theory..

Then I'm still not sure why Donnie died:
Some think he acts like Christ: Sacrifice himself to save others. But who says the events from the TU will repeat themselves in the PU?
Imo using his body, which contains water, to close the TU is far fetched. Why not just let it fall in the ocean?

Maybe Donnie doesnt know he is going to die and living dead Frank isn't there anymore to save him (in the PU). Donnie however does remember the events as a dream and finally believes in God and isn't afraid to be/die alone anymore, hence the smile.

I both hate and love this movie. I love it because it makes me think about it more than any other I've ever seen in my life. But I hate it because it can give me headaches thinking about the one and only true interpretation, which there really isn't.

[Bigboy]

Some think he acts like Christ: Sacrifice himself to save others. But who says the events from the TU will repeat themselves in the PU?

Exactly - certainly he acts to save others (along with all of existence), but the 'sacrifice' was unintentional IMO; a necessary side effect of the way the physics of the whole system works.

Not so sure about the smile - he certainly knows that there is more out there for him than a life of depression and medication, he may be relieved that the 'bad dream' is over or surprised that it actually worked - lots of reasons to laugh, but I'm not so sure God is one of them. (But perhaps my own beliefs colour my opinion)