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Post by Bigboy on Dec 4, 2005 13:49:18 GMT -5
Maybe describing Franks MD abilities as 'Super Powers' is a little off but I can see where superobsessed is coming from.
On the subject of memories the PoTT actually says that some will remember thier TU experience as they would a dream. Others will forget entirely.
From the PoTT:
This dreamlike half recollection accounts for all sorts - the wave between Gretchwn and Rose, Frank honking/touching his eye, Jim Cunninham's remorse, Cherita's smile, Kitty Farmer's shock (crying), and (in my opinion) Donnie's laugh - relief in the belief that it was 'all just a dream' afterall
Assuming that you are not referring to the ancient Greek (and by extension Roman) dramatic device of "Deus Ex Machina", could you expand on that statement - because I assure you we would be interested!
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anth
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Post by anth on Dec 4, 2005 20:11:58 GMT -5
Put very nicely.
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Post by SAVE THE GIRL on Dec 7, 2005 21:06:50 GMT -5
I LOVE DONNIE DARKO! of course he had to die, otherwise the girl would have died! The whole point of it was to save the girl!
if you want to ask me any questions or contradict me, please email me @ ponypal05@hotmail.com
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anth
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Post by anth on Dec 7, 2005 21:55:43 GMT -5
Being me, I can't help but condradict you on that, especially when you asked. I don't see why Donnie had to die. All he had to do as the living reciever was give the artifact a reason for landing in his room, he did this through a wormhole. He died because he didn't know the artifact was to fall in his room, he didn't know what happened in the Tangent Universe, although he does feel different. The PoTT (Director's Cut) suggests that it was all like a dream to him.
Roberta Sparrow suffered the same experience as living reciever (I believe) which would explain her abruptly leaving the church. I also believe that through her dreams, she was inspired to write a book on the topic... she is still alive. If she didn't have to die, I don't see why Donnie would have to die.
I already sent you an e-mail though. Happy to chat with you on the topic.
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Post by Bigboy on Dec 8, 2005 7:45:21 GMT -5
It is worth noting that the PoTT specifically mentions "the Manipulated" concerning dreams. Nothing specifically is said about the LR's recollection of the TU - so that he remembers clearly, and that he remembers as a dream, are both reasonable assumptions.
Once you accept that there is no time travel in the movie (except where MD Frank is concerned - but that's another topic), then you can't (IMO) conclude that Donnie HAD to die - BUT many believe that he CHOSE to die for various psychological / philosophical / spiritual reasons.
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Post by thought on Dec 8, 2005 8:43:32 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice that at the end of the movie, when everyone awakens, Mrs Farmer covers her mouth, Cherita has her hand behind her ear (the girl always wears the ear muffs in the movie - refusing to listen to others crap - blocking it out) and then Frank covers his eye. Could this be a reference to "Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil"? Is this a sneaky secret to what the movie is all about?
Why does the poTT book call everyone "the manipluated" and not the "manipulating/manipulators". What is really manipulating them?
If you watch the movie closely and ask why people are in certain times/places you can see that it is usually a result of a fearful response, or negative situation. Perhaps the movie is a an evil setup to gain Donnes life, because he is a threat, or a visionary. Is the bunny really just evil, who appears to save his life ("i have to do what he says, he saved my life") but in reality takes it, through an elaborate staging of events through people and events. Donnie seems to unquestionably follow the rabbits advice everytime, even when the evil and absurd nature of the bunny is so evident. (The kids laughing at Donnie when he speaks of Frank in class as a 6 foot tall rabbit). The teacher was fired because she was a threat to the outcome. A war within Donnie was being staged between the good and evil, and the evil wins. Evil seems to triump over everyone. Donnie gets killed. The family becomes seperated, as evidenced by the mother on the other side of the tree. The two young teachers are sleeping together even though the male teacher complains he may lose his job for speaking to Donnie after class - well couldn't they both lose their jobs though having an sexual relationship? Even the teacher is gotten to at the end, her reference to cellar door, and then her fumbling going out the door where she loses her graceful image shown at the beginning of the moving when entering the school doors. The movie starts with "they could never tear us apart" and then so triumphantly "love will tear us apart".
Who is to say that now that time has been reversed, and donnie dies, the world will not end anyway in 28 days?
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anth
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Post by anth on Dec 8, 2005 10:13:28 GMT -5
I love your imagination, but I'm not sure that was Richard Kelly's idea. Good thinking though.
On the other hand, I totally agree with the whole "Speak no evil, hear no evil, see no evil", I never recognised that allusion before, it make so much sense. Very insightful.
The PoTT calls ppl 'manipulated', because they are manipulated to do things in order to guide the LR to save them from oblivion (hence the spears from the chests). Whatever manipulates them is a mystery which even Donnie cannot come to terms with, he speaks about this with Dr. Thurman.
These are things which we are left to the imagination. The film suggests that once the corruption is reversed or mended then everything will be fine. Although, the beauty of storytelling is that you can create your own ending and future. One problem with this is that the Donnie Darko website contains fabricated newspaper articles which are written well after Donnie's death (someone correct me if I am wrong, I haven't been to the site in a while). Go to the website and follow the journey, it's interesting and some say it is essential to completely understand the film... it was designed by the creators of DD.
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Post by Bigboy on Dec 8, 2005 21:18:19 GMT -5
I like the concept - certainly something I've never heard before.
It does seem to me unobvious imagery though (not that I want this stuff thrust down my throat!); See No Evil - Covering only ONE eye; Hear No Evil - holding her hand only NEAR her ear...
Well that's the question - normally boils down to some advanced intelligence e.g. God, Future Scientist, Alien Intelligence. I do like the idea that the "Mover" is not benevolent however!
Absurd perhaps, but evil? I don't see that from Donnie's point of view that there is evidence either way, to see Frank as good or Evil you have to come to the story with some kind of pre-conception. As you quote, Donnie only chooses to trust Frank because he saved him... (the act of saving Donnie dosen't shed light on Frank's motives of course, but it's all Donnie has to go on).
Would they? I'm not so sure... Decent teachers are hard to come by - (in the UK bursaries for new teachers, particularly in science and maths, have sky-rocketed), I doubt that a relationship between consenting adults would cause a problem. When I was at school my tech / 'shop' teacher was married to one of the female Gym teachers - no problem at all.
I can't help but feel that that is reaching a bit - she's pissed off and carrying an awkward load - what would you expect?
Well that makes the assumption of time-travel on Donnie'spart - which I do not believe the evidence points to.
But as anth says, what happens after the curtain comes down is up to you... Maybe the world will end!
I DO like your ideas, but it seems an extremely convoluted way to bump someone off - if Frank's aim was to kill Donnie, why warn him of the engine in the first place? Why not have the bully finish what he started (twice) with the knife? There's even a GUN in Donnie's house!
Like I said the See/Hear/Speak No Evil observation is interesting, but I can't see that the conclusions you have drawn from that really stand up to scrutiny.
Nice post - keep it up!
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Post by thepretender on Dec 8, 2005 23:21:07 GMT -5
Who is to say that now that time has been reversed, and donnie dies, the world will not end anyway in 28 days? Your whole post was brilliant!!! It made me think of why Donnie had to die again. Was it only so he could see that Gretchen would live?...who knows what her life will be like... He bacame an important part of her life in a short amount of time. Donnie did a lot of meaningul things in those 28 days... I think it points to the realization of how tenuous and insignificant our lives can be if we allow it. |
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Post by frankismyhero on Jan 6, 2006 10:28:04 GMT -5
 Ok this is what i think. Donnie didn't necessarily have to die but chose that as the easiest way to make sure the world would not end or his world rather Gretchen I think the whole "that is when the world will end" was talking about Donnie's world and Gretchen was Donnie's world so he went back in time to kill himself to save Gretchen. Does that make any sense to you? 
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Post by Bigboy on Jan 6, 2006 22:25:09 GMT -5
Not an uncommon interpretation, but it's been fairly well established that Donnie does not travel in time (in the "conventional" sense). Gretchen would have been in no danger if Donnie had survived.
Search the site a bit for plenty of discussion on this...
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Post by PiT on Jan 9, 2006 5:26:20 GMT -5
Hi I read all your suggestions about Donnie Darko's ending, but i think that you missed the point fo time travelling. You wrote that it was a dream, an afterlife, or something like this. When i first saw this movie, i thought that it wasnt about Donnie saving all mankind, but Donnie saving himself (at the end he dies, not anyone else). I connected it with parallel worlds and made my theory that he traveled to the parallel world where the bunny tellls him that the world will end in 28 days. After 28 days he travel back through time and worlds and dies. Maybe its complicated but i cant explain it better  |
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Post by Omnipotent on Jan 9, 2006 22:35:13 GMT -5
Hi I read all your suggestions about Donnie Darko's ending, but i think that you missed the point fo time travelling. You wrote that it was a dream, an afterlife, or something like this. When i first saw this movie, i thought that it wasnt about Donnie saving all mankind, but Donnie saving himself (at the end he dies, not anyone else). I connected it with parallel worlds and made my theory that he traveled to the parallel world where the bunny tellls him that the world will end in 28 days. After 28 days he travel back through time and worlds and dies. Maybe its complicated but i cant explain it better Donnie never time travels in the film, after the "jet engine fiasco" a parallel universe is created and can only be closed by the artifact (jet engine) being sent back in time to correct the corruption. I thought this was obvious being that the film is Donnie's journey to finding out what's going on around him, he isn't aware of what has happened from the jump. |
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kazuo
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Post by kazuo on Jan 19, 2006 15:47:01 GMT -5
i got a question tho...after Donnie finds the pistol in his parents' closet, gretchen, the next day at school, asks "where did you get that blood on your neck?" any explanation?
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Jan 19, 2006 16:58:29 GMT -5
"where did you get that blood on your neck?" any explanation? Watch Donnie's encounter with the switchblade-wielding bully in the bathroom carefully; you may consider watching the deleted scenes, too. That'll be your answer. |
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Ok this is what i think. Donnie didn't necessarily have to die but chose that as the easiest way to make sure the world would not end or his world rather Gretchen I think the whole "that is when the world will end" was talking about Donnie's world and Gretchen was Donnie's world so he went back in time to kill himself to save Gretchen. Does that make any sense to you? 
