Why did Donnie have to die? - I figured it out.

[ProvidencePortal]

thepretender said:

Providence,
Cool that you noted how:
"even the most common interpretation of the movie demands that we ignore at least SOME contradictory stuff -- mostly from RK himself. "
Is this true?

I bet it depends on who you ask. That's because some people believe Kelly purposefully created an ambiguous movie -- that his purpose was to do so. I actually think the evidence in his interviews and in the fact that he made a "director's cut" that seems to spell out the sci-fi side of the story ... I think all of that indicates that he had a very specific vision when he made the theatrical cut -- he just didn't get it quite there, maybe because of lack of control during edit, or low funding, or any number of considerations.

Then, after it launched and people had wildly disparate interpretations, I think he enjoyed the attention enough that he didn't want to alienate any of those folks who'd become fans by explaining that some are, well, wrong (at least according to what the story in his head was). So he chose to answer questions ambiguously. "Maybe Donnie had to die ... maybe he didn't." "Maybe he chooses to ... or maybe he's just awaking from a dream and doesn't know what's going on." ... thus providing us with lots of contradictory or muddy data from the writer/director himself ... and forcing us to discount at least some of it in order to come up with a unified read of the film.

I know BB and others have a perspective on this. Maybe we should transfer to another thread and continue? I think "Can We Trust Kelly?" is a section somewhere ... I'd be happy to discuss there.

[maureens]

ecto1 said:

Well here is my theory; I remember from way back when on my old account here I said something like this once. That in fact Donnie did not have to die for anything. By the time he's back in his bed and the engine is hurtling through space-time he has already set things straight and right and things are all peachy.

So I believe that Donnie simply choused to die. This is for a couple reasons. One reason is his laughing at the end; I see this as a epiphany. Donnie has just saved the known universe and I believe he knows that. So Donnie knows the engines coming so he's given one last choice. Either get out of bed and live his life or stay and die. Now your all wondering why would he stay and die?

Well, this seems to be because he knows he is no longer alone, that after what he has been through he realizes that there is a higher power than himself and knows that there is something to look forward to. And possible he is afraid that if he does get out of bed and lives that the world would not unfold the same way it had. Possible he would never meet Gretchen and possible end up all alone in his old age, and to go for the long reach, that maybe Donnie would end up being the next Roberta Sparrow in that he would be the one to live alone to help the next LR for the fact that he deviated from gods given path and decided to stay alive. So Donnie chooses to die knowing there is something to look forward to and that he in that he is happy. And that's why he laughs and why he dies cause he is so damn happy.

Yep that's my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. Oh, and thanks for reading it.

i totally, totally, one hundred percent agree.

[Josh]

The TU donnie who traveled back made a conscious decision to die for his friends. But maybe the PU donnie was just laughing about the odd dream he had like the rest of em in the "Mad World" sceen and didn't know it was about to happen.

[Kimie]

maybe donnie doesn't have to die at all, but like all the other characters in the 'Mad World" montage, he can't really remember what has happened. He only has faint memories, and his last memories were probably relaly happy since he just saved the universe, hence the laughing

[Al]

I see Donnie as a Christ figure...he willingly sacrifices himself to save others...throughout the film donnie sees a version of the future and all of the horrible events which occur after the day the engine falls through his roof and he is given a choice..he can go back in time and die in that room..or he can go on and live with what has happened...in the end he chooses to go back and "take one for the team" so that both gretchen and frank can live....at one point in the film donnie even stretches his arms out in a christ-on-the-cross style pose...and also there is a refference to christ in the title of the film he and gretchen see in the theatre.."the living dead...the last temptation of christ"

thats my interpretation...I hope it helps

[MrJ05]

Donnie darko did not have to die. watch the movie around the 1 hr 39 min mark. i read somewhere that donnie had supernatural powers, like being able to hit the axe into solid braun (gretchen also says his name sounds like a super hero). at the exact time 28:06:42:12 we see donnie back on top of the hill sittin on his car, he is using his telekenetic powers to open a worm hole (frank can do anything and so can he) which is in the path of the airplane his mother and sister are on, by doing this he sends the jet engine back into the tangent universe sealing the universes. he only gets crushed because after the whole thing many people dont remember what had happened and others feel it was just all a bad dream, in this case everyone feels it was a dream and the mear fact that donnie was chosen to save the entire universe was amusing to him.

[question]

I think i understand the ending except for one major thing....After his chick dies, he sees that him not dying that night when the engine crashed in his room led to all these bad things. So he decides to go back in time (?) and be in his room when the engine crashes in there to prevent the future events of his chick and everyone else dying...The plane's engine i'm assuming went into some wormhole and ended up in his bedroom in the past which is the point he goes back to. My question is, how does he goes back into time? Are we just suppose to assume he has some superpowers??

[anth]

question said:

I think i understand the ending except for one major thing....After his chick dies, he sees that him not dying that night when the engine crashed in his room led to all these bad things. So he decides to go back in time (?) and be in his room when the engine crashes in there to prevent the future events of his chick and everyone else dying...The plane's engine i'm assuming went into some wormhole and ended up in his bedroom in the past which is the point he goes back to. My question is, how does he goes back into time? Are we just suppose to assume he has some superpowers??

I'm not sure if someone had already suggested this, but I am simply answering the above questions.

First of all I don't think Donnie goes back in time ever. Instead he gives the artifact a reason for it's arrival in his bedroom and send's it into the Primary Universe through a wormhole which he created. Donnie is the 'living reciever' and therefore does possess some powers in order to set things right and undo the corruption which has taken place. We arn't suppose to assume this, the information is communicated to us through the pages of 'The philosophy of time travel'. Parts of the book are displayed throughout the film, this is how we find out that Donnie does possess powers, but doesn't actually go back in time himself. He wakes up like everyone else with only his dreams to re-cap the events of the Tangent Universe. He doesn't get out of bed because he is a changed person and didn't feel the pull to do so. Although, Frank does try to warn Donnie of the falling artifact with honks of his horn. I strongly believe that Donnie DID NOT wake up knowing exactly what happened, he simply felt different... much more positive and grounded. This is why he laughed so heartedly. I don't believe he chose to kill himself or to live, he didn't know what was coming and woke up oblivious like everyone else.

[Bigboy]

I totally agree with that interpretation. Consensus around here is with the "no time travel stance for Donnie", but the laughing / avoiding death issue is a little contentious (as I said I personally agree with you...)

I'm guessing that you've only seen the Directors Cut (from your comment about segments of the book being shown through the movie), so it's worth baring in mind that many formed thier opinions based on the theatrical version (worth watching if you can get it), which if anything is even more ambiguous and vague (for want of a much, much better word) than the DC.

[anth]

I should see that, but I can't find it. I live in Australia and it's so hard to get anything here. Once the DC of a movie is shown, they throw everything else out. Thanks though, because (if I have to) I'll but it on e bay. I already have the DC, but buying it on ebay is worth it... Donnie Darko is worth it. One question though, did they not show any of the pages from the POTT in the theatrical version? If not, That would have be a presumptious move on Richard Kelly's behalf.

[Bigboy]

Nope no pages. (You could see the book at time of release by working through the website though...).
The DC is weighted toward the Sci-Fi multiple universes angle, whereas the original left things far more open to more diverse interpretations - like madness, fate, divine intervention and timetravel. Most have a favourite version, but tend to view each as a different entity in it's own right.

If by presumptuous you mean that, despite the staple of flavourless popcorn mush that the Hollywood sausage factory continuously churns out, that Kelly presumed that there were still movie fans who have 3 digit IQs - then, yes, I suppose he was!

Here is a list of the major changes made in the DC. General changes were also made in the quality of the picture and an almost completely remastered soundtrack.

[Mike]

In the ending scene Gretchen is seen waving to Donnie's mom,, who doesnt look at all surprised or sad by the way. Is there a chance that Gretchen and Donnies Mom know what he gave his life for, and understand everything that would have happened

[anth]

bigboy said:

If by presumptuous you mean that, despite the staple of flavourless popcorn mush that the Hollywood sausage factory continuously churns out, that Kelly presumed that there were still movie fans who have 3 digit IQs - then, yes, I suppose he was!

Lol. Exactly. Finally a presumptuous director!

And, just so no one gets upset, I mean to say this in the most positive light. The word 'presumptuous' has grown with negative connotations as society has beome more lazy. Instead of looking at the many angles of a word, they stick to one connotation so that they don't have to think. Contrarily, presumptuous can be a positive attribute, especially in writing and directing, when there are so many directors holding back in fear that the majority will not catch on, instead of taking risks. Richard Kelly is incredible.

As for Mike's question, I believe that Gretchen and Donnie's mum did not remember what happened. They simply felt a connection, but couldn't have known exactly what took place in the Tangent Universe, neither did Donnie.

[superobsessed]

i think that the universe was falling apart because it had come from nowhere, as i presume some of u have said. He sent the engine back in time because it was the only way to restore order tot he universe, because things don't just come from nowhere, not in this universe. a lot of the movie, including how frank got his super powers when donnie shot him is mentioned in roman mythology, not that anyone cares. and i choose to believe that he was laughing at the end because he knew, that in dying he would prevent a lot of fear, a lot of fear, and a lot of suffering. And us such he would be the first creature on this earth not to die alone. and While everyone is depressed at the end, and Frank has a very vauge recolection, enough to honk his horn, this is also mentioned in roman mythology, and on one of the pages of the philosophy viewed in the directors cut, because they don't remember, so lets just go with that

[anth]

Frank didn't ever possess super powers, he was a manipulated dead. The POTT suggests that everyone (including the Living Reciever) does not know what happened in the Tangent Universe. Take from that what you will.