Why did Donnie have to die? - I figured it out.

[Reed]

(I think)

I know there are older threads on this, but nothing recent, and I'd rather start fresh.

Anyway, why did he have to die? Because that's how the artifact is returned to the primary universe, by literally going through the living receiver.

Consider from POTT:
Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found.....

We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.

Two examples of someone being PENETRATED by the artifact. And Donnie makes three. Coincedence?

Donnie didn't create the wormhole, or force the engine through time. He closed the wormhole, by letting himself be crushed by it.

Being the living receiver, it would seem, is quite the suck job.

[Bigboy]

Nice idea, but it would seem to render a great deal of the movie pointless. If all Donnie had to do was be squished, and he didn't open the wormhole at the end and didn't send the engine through it, then the Ensurance Trap and all the events that led to it (ie everything in the TU) are rendered redundant.

I'd be more likely to go for the lock+key scenario (LR=Lock, Artifact=Key) iff Donnie does create the wormhole and does send the engine through it with full knowledge of his fate.

[Reed]

bigboy said:

Nice idea, but it would seem to render a great deal of the movie pointless. If all Donnie had to do was be squished, and he didn't open the wormhole at the end and didn't send the engine through it, then the Ensurance Trap and all the events that led to it (ie everything in the TU) are rendered redundant.

I'd be more likely to go for the lock+key scenario (LR=Lock, Artifact=Key) iff Donnie does create the wormhole and does send the engine through it with full knowledge of his fate.

Lock-key scenario, I'd buy.

Remember from TPOTT:
"The Living Receiver is chosen to guide the Artifact into position for its journey back to the Primary Universe. "

"Water and Metal are the key elements of Time Travel.

Water is the barrier element for the construction of Time Portals used as gateways between Universes at the Tangent Vortex. "

The gateway between universes is made of water. The wormhole the engine falls through isn't made of water. But Donnie, being human, is mostly made up of water. HE is the gateway between universes.

TPOTT is telling Donnie that he MUST die. I'll have to watch the movie again...

[Omnipotent]

Richard Kelly himself said he didn't necessarily have to die in the commentary but who knows maybe he just said that to keep people talking.

[melikeshit]

donnie could haved died the first time, because if he did'nt get out of bed then none of it would have happened. but under the time in the tagent universe donnie learned more about life. it would be fair if he would die the first time, with all the questions he had so when he eventually dies its just because he got answers to the question. but yes TPOTT and the jesus theory seems to be the correct answers to all of the movie.

[Smiley]

Is it Possible that there was no choice? Could it be possible that everything that happened in the movie was a hullucination? Or even better, an afterlife in which he did not know he was dead?
I think that donnie was killed at the beggining of the movie and the entire movie was donnie figuring out that he had died. To figure this out he had to travel backwards through his own head.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Me and a few of my friends thought this out recently and can't find a hole in it.

[thepretender]

Hey there Smiley.
I have had these same thoughts. My favorite is that he did die but that he was given a view of life if he hadn't died.
Kind of like how the guy in It's a Wonderful Life was shown what life would have been like if he had never been born.
Or kind of like how Ebenezer Scrooge is shown what affect he has on those around him.
I have found a million holes in my theories but it doesn't prevent me from thinking that I am right.
:-)

[ProvidencePortal]

The "dead before he realizes it" theory is one that's maintained some steam with viewers since the beginning. It's seemingly lent additional creedence by the nod Kelly seems to give in the marquee at the movie theater advertising The Last Temptation of Christ -- a movie in which Jesus mentally relives his life in his final moments on the cross. Kelly also says he was inspired by a Twilight Zone episode in which a dying man is shown a vision of his life as it might have been.

As with most theories outside the Living Receiver idea, this one gets complicated (maybe to the point of being debunked) when we take into account the PoTT, the Web site and Kelly's interviews. If we consider only the movie, it strikes me as a perfectly workable interpretation. Thanks for the post, Smiley.

[GrandpaDeath]

thepretender said:

I have had these same thoughts. My favorite is that he did die but that he was given a view of life if he hadn't died.

Part of me would like to believe that, Linda (You'll always be Linda Paloma to me), since "It's a Wonderful Life," "Peggy Sue Got Married" and similar "What if ...?" films are close to my heart.

But how would that explain the other characters' reactions in the "Mad World" montage? If it had been only Donnie's dream or vision, how would they have been affected by it ... or even known about it?

And does that mean that the PoTT was just a figment of his vision and had no real purpose?

I see the film a lot more literally, I guess.

Your redneck friend,

GPD

[ProvidencePortal]

Let me preface with this: I believe the most likely read of the movie is the LR cycle. But just for the sake of discussion ...

The Mad World montage -- Maybe the life we see created (by Donnie's subconcious?) in his final moment reflects real behind-the-scenes situations he's intuited. Somehow his undermind has worked it all out: JC's a pedophile, etc. And these people wake up each morning dealing with their own demons in the same way Donnie was dealing with his through his final thoughts. Hard to come up with a Frank-poking-his-eye explanation, though ...

The PoTT -- Yep, that's the perspective I've heard from folks who feel strongly that Donnie's TU life is a vision or a "flash before his eyes" deal: that the PoTT is just one more wild, invented element in the whole story he plays out in his head of what his life might have been.

It's hard, and you have to ignore bits of the mythos to make it work. But I like that, because even the most common interpretation of the movie demands that we ignore at least SOME contradictory stuff -- mostly from RK himself.

[gretchen]

oh my gah i love peggy sue got married

[bon]

I think donnie thought it was all a crazy dream thats why he was laughing but then it turned out it wasnt a dream since the engine fell on his ass

[ccr1567]

lol - yeah thats possible too. It's exactly like the wonderful life except that it actually happened - but only to donnie. everyone else has no recallection of anything except the slight knowledge coming through as grief or remose (JC) or a lost memory, sorta like when you look at a picture or hear a song and feel sad, but you don't know why. It's the subconsious mark that donnie left on everyone as the LR. Donnie is not the portal, because he does not "port" the artifact anywhere. He does not do anything to the artifact except recieve it. He is the living reciever. the fn ewater is the clouds the plane was in

[ecto1]

Well here is my theory; I remember from way back when on my old account here I said something like this once. That in fact Donnie did not have to die for anything. By the time he's back in his bed and the engine is hurtling through space-time he has already set things straight and right and things are all peachy.

So I believe that Donnie simply choused to die. This is for a couple reasons. One reason is his laughing at the end; I see this as a epiphany. Donnie has just saved the known universe and I believe he knows that. So Donnie knows the engines coming so he's given one last choice. Either get out of bed and live his life or stay and die. Now your all wondering why would he stay and die?

Well, this seems to be because he knows he is no longer alone, that after what he has been through he realizes that there is a higher power than himself and knows that there is something to look forward to. And possible he is afraid that if he does get out of bed and lives that the world would not unfold the same way it had. Possible he would never meet Gretchen and possible end up all alone in his old age, and to go for the long reach, that maybe Donnie would end up being the next Roberta Sparrow in that he would be the one to live alone to help the next LR for the fact that he deviated from gods given path and decided to stay alive. So Donnie chooses to die knowing there is something to look forward to and that he in that he is happy. And that's why he laughs and why he dies cause he is so damn happy.

Yep that's my two cents. Take it for what it’s worth. Oh, and thanks for reading it.

[thepretender]

Grandpa!!!
You're still here!! :-) So glad to see you My Redneck Friend!
I agree with what you are saying. That is why I love this movie!!! For me...I think if my mind was able to pinpoint exactly what the movie is all about I wouldn't be as interested in it. I am still trying to grasp stuff and little by little the literal-ness of it may all sink in but the journey has been fine.
Providence,
Cool that you noted how:
"even the most common interpretation of the movie demands that we ignore at least SOME contradictory stuff -- mostly from RK himself. "

Is this true?
When I am here I feel as though I am a kid in the middle of a conversation that I will never understand. Part of me wants to put my hands up to my ears and go "La La la" because my brain cannot focus on what is written. (Heck I am still working on what all of the intials mean.)
But just the same I want to be here and your statement reminds me that the ambiguity might be what would draw more people to this movie than if it's meaning were 'cut and dry'.
IMHO
ECTO!!! Are you a Ghostbusters fan? Please see post under the General section!