Where does the first jet engine come from?

[*eyes*]

i must have missed sumthing here....i think...i hope...WATS GOING ON

[slik]

Yes, it is a Paradox theres noe way around it, but in a way it makes sense. This just proves my point that none of this is real and he is only imagining it so he could save his GF Gretchen in his dreams he's afraid of "dying alone". Thats why it is such an obvious paradox to hint to this fact, that its not real only a fantasy, get it?

[greedy]

Guest-slik said:

Yes, it is a Paradox theres noe way around it, but in a way it makes sense. This just proves my point that none of this is real and he is only imagining it so he could save his GF Gretchen in his dreams he's afraid of "dying alone". Thats why it is such an obvious paradox to hint to this fact, that its not real only a fantasy, get it?

we get what your saying but what your not understanding is that this is not your typical hollywood sci-fi dribble in which you can through on the simple explanation and walk ou the door you have to study understand review retool and formulate theorys not to mention pry your self out of this hollywood dribble fest my sugestion is to watch some quientin tarinteno (i know i spelled it wrong) and free your brain a little bit then try watching DD agian

[Madridarko]

I also remember reading in some review that DD was about "what would have happened if a young virginian boy had survived a fatal and mysterious jet engine crash" or something like that... Basically they were saying that the whole TU was a "dream" of what would have happened if Donnie had survived, which is totally ridiculus, because what the heck does the destruction of the universe have to do with Donnie surviving or not... I mean to say that just because Donnie survived the universe was going to self destruct unless he decided to end his dream and take on his fate??

I thought that explanation was kinda ridiculus.... Unless in that appraoch they were thinking that because of Donnie's "schizophrenic" problems, that Frank BR and the destruction of the universe were all in his head and that they never happened, but that is still ridiculus.....

[adolf allerbush]

In real life a jet engine does not drop on Johnnys bed so he originally never dies. He realy gets up that morning and goes about his life. As he goes about his life his girl dies, mom, sister die and he kills frank for running over his girl. After all this time has passed Donnie sends the jet engine back to when he gets up that moring but this time it kills him preventing all that bad shit from happening. So you see, the engine does not fall twice it only falls once and thats how it came from the future. I know there are many holes in my explanation but these are just some quick explanations.

[Madridarko]

Guest-adolf said:

In real life a jet engine does not drop on Johnny bed so he originally never dies.

Hello there adolf allerbush.... Umm, just let me tell you right now before you go and bump to another member who might ridicule you for doing a mistake such as getting Donnie's mixed up with Johnny. Hence the name of the movie Donnie Darko... But that was just a small mistake that anybody could have done... Just wanted to make sure you were advised...

And you're theory is basicallly what Donnie's Ensurance trap encompases. The loss of so many people dear to him in his incentive to use his powers in order to save the universe... And thecnically, the mother's death couldn't have been part of the reason, because Donnie riped off the engine off the plane the mother was in, so she was still alive... I think he was probably also looking to the greater good that he would be doing to the universe by saving it from oblivion and not just because of selfish reasons.

You are correct to a certain extent that the engine only fell once, but they fall because of different reasons. Hence the first engine wich comes from an unknown time or place in the future, and engine number two which is the one that Donnie "sends back in time" and is ultimatly killed by it....

[Canuckfuck]

*eyes* said:

the engine come from tho plane sparkle motion is on it makes sense because a portal opens like i does when they on the plane which u see later on and it falls through and the other end just happens to be over his room really did u watch this movie or sleep through it watch it again and pay attention

The question still hasn't been answered. Why did Frank lure Donnie away from the bed in the first place? Why not leave Donnie there; everything would then be okay; none of the other stuff would've happened.

If the universes are all in synch at the end, why and how does the jet engine come from another universe? Donnie was supposed to have made everything okay, yes? The jet engine still comes from another universe at the end, after all the unverses are supposed to be in their place.

It seems to me that Frank isn't a 'guide' or of any benefit to Donnie: in fact Frank was the problem! Frank was from the Tangent Universe; Donnie dieing was from the Primary Universe. Frank propegated the TU by luring Donnie away from his bed. Why?

[gretchen]

frank lures donnie out of bed so that he can return the artifact and balances the universes.

the first time you see the engine fall, we are already in the TU. if donnie had died at that time, there would be no LR to save the universe. frank needed to get him out of bed so that he could fulfill his purpose.

the second time the engine fell and killed donnie, it was back in the PU. the loop was closed and all was right.

[Canuckfcuk]

gretchen said:

frank lures donnie out of bed so that he can return the artifact and balances the universes.

the first time you see the engine fall, we are already in the TU. if donnie had died at that time, there would be no LR to save the universe. frank needed to get him out of bed so that he could fulfill his purpose.

the second time the engine fell and killed donnie, it was back in the PU. the loop was closed and all was right.

Sorry, I'm still confused. Return the artifact? But the artifact isn't returned: the jet engine is from another universe and it still falls in to Donnie's universe. The Primary universe we see at the end (with Donnie dead) still has the artifact from 'the future' or from 'another universe' in it.

[Bigboy]

It doesn't matter - as long as the Artifact is no longer in the TU.
The Primary Universe can cope with as much 'extra' stuff as you like.

[Madridarko]

Also you can view it as a zipper effect....

The artifact is a the little zipper thing that has the tab and which you pull... As it goes one way from the PU future and it creates the TU in which it lands on, it "opens" a portal. The only way to close it, is to send the engine through that portal again, to close it like a zipper closes on the way the metal thing goes up and down on a zipper.

[Canuckfcuk]

Why did Frank lure Donnie away in the first place? This has fucked with me for a long time (well for a month). Thanks to this site:
www.tonystuff.co.uk/darko-spoilers.htm#top, I've managed to almost grasp it. I say almost because there are still things I don't get.

The jet engine comes from another universe's future. When it crashes through to Donnie's 'primary universe' a Tangent Universe is created.

The jet engine is 'an artifact' from ''the future'; it caused the Tangent Universe when it crashed in to Donnie's bedroom. Tangent Universe's are bad. The world can only sustain one for 28 days, and then it (the world) will be destroyed.

Now: this is where the confusion for many (including myself) arises. Why did Frank lure Donnie away in the first place? Why not let Donnie die and then be done with it.

Well: the only way to destroy the Tangent Universe is to send the artifact back through. It must be sent back through the worm hole (or whatever you want to call it). Donnie dieing is not enough: it must be sent back through; only Donnie can do this as he is the closest to the artifact when this happens. He becomes the Life Receiver because he is closest (by total fluke and with no 'pre-destined chosen one' mumbo-jumbo) to the artifact. If Donnie were to die at the get-go, he would not be able to send the artifact back through.

Frank comes from the future of the Tangent Universe (in which he is killed by Donnie) to guide Donnie through to events (Frank, Gretchen, mum and sister being killed) that leave Donnie no choice but to then go back in time. What motivates Donnie to go back in time is to save his loved ones; saving the universe is a bonus.

The journey that Donnie goes through, that Frank guides him through, is to meant to show him things that will motivate Donnie to go back in time. Good things and bad things happen that do this:

Good things:

1. Donnie learns that he is not alone (the love of Gretchen, the love of his mother, love from Cherita). He then is not afraid of death.
2. He is not crazy (his therapist tells him his pills are fake)

Bad things:

1. Gretchen dies.
2. He kills Frank.
3. Mother and Sister die in plane.

By going back in time to the Primary Universe, to before when the Tangent Universe was created, and staying in the bed and getting killed by the jet engine which WHICH IS COMING FROM THE TANGENT UNIVERSE HE JUST CAME BACK IN TIME FROM, he closes the "loop''. He went through the Tangent Universe and set in motion the events leading up to the jet engine falling through his room; but, this time he stayed in his bed and got killed, ending the Tangent Universe. At the beginning of the movie, the first time the engine comes through: that engine was the engine coming from the Tangent Universe. Donnie sent the artifact (and himself) back to October 1st.

This of course begs the question again: why did Frank lure Donnie away? He did so because the Tangent Universe is not the Primary Universe. It is not reality. It is an alternate reality; however, it has now become the only reality. So, the Tangent Universe was created by an artifact from the Tangent Universe! Think of time as a loop, and not linear (although the site from where I got most of this says not to). The Tangent Universe is the 'new reality' and needs to be destroyed in order for the Primary Universe to survive. Frank lures Donnie away because the only way for the Tangent Universe to be destroyed is to send the artifact back through the hole, thus sealing (somehow) the wormhole from which it (the artifact) came through.

If Donnie had been allowed to die at the moment of the Tangent Universe, he would not have been able to (now hold on) go through the Tangent Universe, set in motion the events that led up to the jet engine falling off the jet, sending it and himself back to the Primary Universe, and this time deciding (cause he has the power) to die: thus altering reality; destroying the TU. Another person on this site said to think of it as a zipper: the artifact going through first is opening the zipper (TU); the artifact going back in time and through the wormhole again is closing the zipper (PU).

[glow=red,2,300]Now how about this: The jet engine at the beginning is sent back in time from the future from Donnie himself![/glow]

October 1 - Initially Primary Universe
Jet Engine Crashes from TU future.
TU Created
Frank saves Donnie so he can go through TU and set in motion events that will lead to jet engine crashing

October 2-28
Movie happens

October 28
Donnie sends engine back in time to moment it crashed through in to Primary Universe - October 1
Donnie himself goes back in time.

October 1 - Back to Primary Universe
Donnie stays in bed; gets killed.
This destroys the Tangent Universe.
It destroys the TU timeline; the TU reality.

There are of course still - pardon the pun - 'holes' with this theory. Thinking of time as a 'loop'' for instance necessarily need not apply here. Time can be seen as linear while at the same time thinking of 'past' and 'future'. When 'fate' is brought in to the discussion, then a 'time loop' has more validity, as you can not escape fate: what is meant to happen to you will happen to you no matter what you do.

But Donnie is not necessarily 'looping'. He is going back and forth in time. Frank is coming from the 'future' and showing Donnie what happens. The artifact and Donnie don't 'loop' when they go back in time, they are travelling back (it can be argued) on a linear time path. HOWEVER: in a sense a 'time loop' is occurring because
Donnie sent the jet engine (which we see in the beginning of the film) himself!

If you think of time as in a 'loop', Frank luring Donnie away doesn't make sense. If you think of time as Linear, then it does; for then 'time' only happens 'once' and (if you believe in time travel) can be altered. If you believe in 'fate', then if it were to be Donnie's fate to die, then Frank luring him away doesn't make sense. Unless you think that the whole 'linear time' belief is controlled by 'fate'. the jet engine was destined to fall through; Donnie was destined to go through the TU; Donnie was destined to go back in time and die by being crushed by a jet engine he himself sent back in time to kill him -- a jet engine from the future that was sent back in time by his future self.

So. There you are. Still confused, eh? I still am. I've managed though to make sense of it a little more. Please feel free to comment, edit, correct. I'm going to bed now.

[Madridarko]

This has been a popular theory for a while, but because there are certain "holes" in it, it has kinda faded out. Mainly because it still doesn't answer "Why did donnie not die the first time?" According to you, if the first engine was sent back by a future Donnie, wouldn't have that meant that Donnie was supposed to die?

Allow me to go in order to explain better......

Guest-Canuckfcuk said:

The jet engine is 'an artifact' from ''the future'; it caused the Tangent Universe when it crashed in to Donnie's bedroom. Tangent Universe's are bad. The world can only sustain one for 28 days, and then it (the world) will be destroyed.

Actually, the TU did not begin when the Artifact hit Donnie's house, it must have been going on for at least a few minutes already.... Frank can only exist in the TU, so the fact that Frank called out Donnie, means that the TU had already begun.... Also in the PoTT it states that "The artifact is a sign that the Tangent Universe has started" ..... The fact of the Artifact going back in time probably causes the TU formation, but by the time it lands, the TU has already begun..... And the consequences are a bit more catastrophic, the whole universe is destroyed not only the world

Ok, now according to your loop explanation, there are two Donnies, the future one which is still in the TU, and the one that is just entering the TU... Donnie 1 (the one that already passed through the whole array of events and is about to send the engine back) is sending the engine back to the begenning. Donnie 2 just entered the TU.... Donnie 1 is back in his bed and the engine is about to kill him.... Halt!...... If the engine Donnie sends back in time is the same engine that kills him...... How is it that Donnie 2 dodge that same engine?

Let me try to clarify... It is the exact same engine (the one that Donnie 1 sends back in time from the TU) that both kills Donnie 1 in his bed, but Donnie 2 is able to dodge it... At the same time!.... I don't remember seeing two Donnies in the same bed, one that stood up and sleptwalked and the other that was killed... Even if Donnie 1 was back into the PU while Donnie 2 was in the TU... How can you explain the fact that the engine Donnie 1 sent back, landed on two different locationsm (universes) at the same time. (I am reallly sorry if you can't seem to understand what I am trieng to state here, if you are confused, maybe BigBoy will do us the favor of maybe trieng to explain what I am saying)

Guest-Canuckfcuk said:

Frank comes from the future of the Tangent Universe (in which he is killed by Donnie) to guide Donnie through to events (Frank, Gretchen, mum and sister being killed) that leave Donnie no choice but to then go back in time. What motivates Donnie to go back in time is to save his loved ones; saving the universe is a bonus.

The journey that Donnie goes through, that Frank guides him through, is to meant to show him things that will motivate Donnie to go back in time. Good things and bad things happen that do this:

Good things:

1. Donnie learns that he is not alone (the love of Gretchen, the love of his mother, love from Cherita). He then is not afraid of death.
2. He is not crazy (his therapist tells him his pills are fake)

Bad things:

1. Gretchen dies.
2. He kills Frank.
3. Mother and Sister die in plane.

This is greatly explained... and everything else, you are right on track...


I personally do prefer the "fated" events explanation, but I am not saying that it is nessecaraly the one and only correct explanation....

[gretchen]

you've got to get over this whole the engine is from the future thing. that's one of the theories but it's going to drive you insane.

like i said before. when you see the engine drop the first time, and it doesn't kill donnie...

THAT ENGINE IS FROM THE PU. why? how do i know this? because. we are trucking along in the pu with no problem, until a rip in space time occurs and wormhole erupts. voila, tangent universe. now. the tu is in existance, and while unstable and only able to exist for a few weeks it's not going to cause any of us in the pu any problems.

HOWEVER.

at the time the wormhole erupts, a plane just so happens to be flying over and get its engine ripped ooff and pulled through into the tu.

up until this point the universes were balanced. one of everything. but now, the tu has one too many engines of the same type. unbalanced. which means it will take the pu with it when it collapses, and all known life.

big problems for us in the pu, right?

the engine is heading for donnie's room. we are in the tu now. frank can only exist in the tu. he is not from the future. he wakes donnie, because it is his job as the LR to right the universe before it collapses.

frank is an MD, and he is responsible for the greatest influence on donnie. he must do whatever it takes to get donnie to return the artifact.

notice how the FAA guys TAKE THE ENGINE AWAY in the beginning? how is donnie supposed to return that now? he can't. so he does the only other thing he can.

he send the tu REPLICA engine back to the pu. this balances the universes, so that when the tu collapses it does not take the pu with it.

now the engine that falls and kills donnie is from the tu, and it falls into the pu by way of the wormhole.

there is much speculation about why donnie dies at the end. but, that is carried on in another thread.

it's not about time travel, it's not about the future.

it's about parallel universes.

[Canuckfuck]

gretchen said:

you've got to get over this whole the engine is from the future thing. that's one of the theories but it's going to drive you insane.

it's not about time travel, it's not about the future.

it's about parallel universes.

I love you Gretchen. I too have issues with the 'future' theory. I started theorising on the 'future' theory because it seemed that everyone was on that vibe. I totally prefer the parallel universe explanation and find it far easier to understand the movie that way.

Madridarko: Yeah, there are a lot of holes there; that's why I was still confused at the end of it all. Another 'time travel' theory I had was that as Frank is dead, he is essentially 'outside' the frame of time and space; and as Donnie is the life receiver, he too has the power (eventually) to do the same, as well as mess around with events.

Will think about your explanations and will re-post; if I don't explode that is.

x