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Post by reignman on Aug 1, 2004 13:28:49 GMT -5
This is odd.
So, your time spear is where you’re going in the next few seconds, and if you see you time spear, then you cannot change it because it's...what you are supposed to do. "Not if you travel within God's channel."
If you can't change your future if you see it...then you see your future, and you cannot do what you want to (your channel)—you must go through God’s channel, which is what you saw. For example, let’s say you see yourself 10 years from now, and you’re a lawyer. You think to yourself, “I’d rather be a professional wrestler.” No matter what you do, you WILL become a lawyer. However, why would Donnie go into his parents bedroom for no reason (not seeing his path) and find the gun. You can’t do your path because you saw it. It would have been easier if the manipulated living gave Donnie a gun, but Donnie getting it himself introduces us w/ something to think about. Actually, the MD Frank may have retroactively done that, because he may have shown Donnie a fake time spear, so that Donnie would follow it? Can anyone think of another explanation for how Donnie gets his gun if he would have no provocation to get up? Seeing his path doesn’t work, because you cannot do your path because you saw it—that is a fundamental paradox.
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Post by jabmah on Aug 7, 2004 4:47:55 GMT -5
This is odd. ok the tangent uni was franks doing when he woke donnie that night. this was against god channel or gods will. i believe that spheres are gods vessels to do his bidding follow his plan for someone, the gun was nessesary for donnies tangent uni to come to an end as all good things must. frank i think is another personality in donnies schizto mind thats on a higher level of excistance and can interfere with gods channels
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Post by Madridarko on Sept 28, 2004 17:54:24 GMT -5
I think donnie and the spears are both part of "gods" plan to ensure that the tangent univerese will end and it will return to his original plan.
Because it is in the tangent Universe, everybody's actions are predetermined so that donnie has to end the tangent universe at the end. One donnies powers that he has since the tangent universe bagan enables him to see them. I am not sure when or why he can see them though. So Frank and the spears are part of this almost all pre-dertermined world and frank is there to ensure some of the acts of donnie to happen. (ensurance trap)
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Post by Saki on Oct 11, 2004 19:42:51 GMT -5
its not a paradox, its more like if you can see what god wants you to do, you can either choose to do it, or not. since donnie at this point in the movie believes these spears are gods will, and wants to work in that will, of course he is gonna follow it and see the gun the way god is taught in less strict religions is that god gave us free will, and he lets us excersize it as we wish. now of course, donnie could have saved himself and then on the day the tangent universe collapsed most likely then everyone who was manipulated in the tangent would be killed in the black hole, and since donnie was not in the third universe when he was supposed to be, that would cause chaos in the normal universe and everything would be screwed up and i dont know what would happen after that. if you read his poem he already decides that he will sacrifice himself in order to save gretchen and his mother and sister and everything, meaning the ensurance trap was a success. i believe that everyone has a choice in what they do, we naturally follow gods path, because we dont know were linked to it, but if we knew, imagine the chaos that would happen in the timeline? if assuming the future is already pre determined, it would shatter that and i dont really know what would happen after that...maybe it would be like a tree..and each universe is a branch, you could just cut it off where the branch would begin to rot, and it would eventually grow again. bah, i donno ^_^;
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 11, 2004 20:27:13 GMT -5
Hey, nice comparison. I like your ideas, there are something that had not been heard around here before hich is why we are here, to learn about new ideas and points of views.
I belive that in some way, we do have a certain type of "free will" and that we are masters of our lives for most of the parts, except in those rare occasions where god decides to intervine, or decides that a ceratin event is just inevitable. I think somebody else said in one of the other forums "god just laid the cards, and is watching them be played" I think it kind of is like that. Except that sometimes, he might have an opinion of his and might "hint" the cards to a certain position of his desire.
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Post by Buu on Oct 12, 2004 17:43:36 GMT -5
The events that Frank guides Donnie to are what Donnie was meant to do in the Primary Universe or real world, If he doesn't get killed by the engine. This is supported by his destiny spear/fluid leading him to the gun.
Had Donny awoken and avoided the engine, his schizofrenic nature (In one deleted scene, we learn that Donnie has recently been taken off medication and placed on placebo) would've caused him to flood the school, either out of spite for the school or to spend more time with Gretchen; burn down Cunningham's house out of spite, and shoot Frank out of anger after he hit Gretchen. These actions lead donny to send the engine of his mom and sis's plane thru the portal as we see in the movie. He's actually sending the engine to Oct. 2 to kill himself to avoid all the events he's just seen (Death of Gretchen, murder of Frank). By doing this he creates an "artifact", because the engine he sends thru doesn't belong where he's sending it. He has either sent the engine to a tangent universe or created a tangent universe when he sent the engine thru. This tangent universe places all reality at risk. (Donnie had to have actually done all these things of his own "free will" at some point)
When the engine arrives in the tangent universe, it would kill Donnie and he could never fix the problem that the engine's presence creates. The manipulated body of Frank (Who has already been killed by Donnie in the real universe) is sent to help Tangent Donnie escape death and perform all the tasks listed above so that he can send a "replacement" engine back to the real universe.
The world that most of the movie takes place in contains one too many engines (Because real Donnie sent it there). By sending an engine from the tangent universe (Oct. 30) into the real universe(Oct 2.) he balances things out. Since the universe is no longer compromised by an artifact (The engine that kills him is from the tangent universe, the engine from the real universe has perished with the tangent universe and was replaced by the tangent engine) Donnie isn't needed to restore order and so he's free to die and avoid the pain he would bring to Frank, Gretchen, and his family.
The engine that hits him in the end, is the same engine we see him send thru the portal.
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Post by gretchen on Oct 12, 2004 18:15:04 GMT -5
if i have to read this one more time... i'm going to reach through the computer and chop your stupid fingers off.
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 13, 2004 19:04:45 GMT -5
Hey, why don't you just become a permanent member, that way we can send you threat messeges to never post that randomly again! it is an intristing idea, but just learn to post it in the right place! Also, the time spear thing, it is actions that god wants or nearly makes him to do in the tangent univerese that way he will have to face the option in the end at carapthian ridge where he is with dead Gretchen. The tangent univerese is licke a glitch in god's plan, so he decides to mend it and all the manipulated dead and living and all the other factors are there to ensure the orginal plan of go to go back on track.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 14, 2004 10:12:54 GMT -5
if i have to read this one more time... i'm going to reach through the computer and chop your stupid fingers off. One of the reasons I like Gretch is because, on occasion, in moments of duress, she will flat out drop a Samara-from- The-Ring moment on yo azz. Awesome!
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Post by gretchen on Oct 14, 2004 20:02:40 GMT -5
lol! you guys are just getting a taste of real life gretchen... as opposed to board gretchen. i really like this place and take pride in what we have done with it, and for someone to come on and disrespect what we have built up it really unravels me.
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 14, 2004 21:50:36 GMT -5
Buu, If you ever post that messege again, you will die in 7 days. The vengefull unconsciuoss of Gretchen will make sure to fulfill my curse.
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Post by gretchen on Oct 14, 2004 22:10:53 GMT -5
reeeow!
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 14, 2004 22:17:26 GMT -5
Hey senior member! ;D Congrats! umm, oh yeah, come to think of it, you and another umm lets say 3 to 5 people are the oldest members, and you have almost being like ultimate security here.
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Post by gretchen on Oct 14, 2004 22:45:39 GMT -5
you have almost being like ultimate security here. haha... i do what i can with what "power" i have...
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 14, 2004 22:57:10 GMT -5
and its all based on their respect towards their **seniors**
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