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Post by Bigboy on May 6, 2005 17:30:00 GMT -5
I think so. Though there'd be no guarantees.
Donnies problems were based on his fears of being alone in life and in death. By the end of the film he knows that those fears are unfounded. I just think that knowing that there's nothing to fear in living that it would be an awful waste to turn your back on it because... (wait for it) ...there's so much to look forward to!
But as you say - everyone is different!
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Post by Cameron on May 8, 2005 20:56:01 GMT -5
I figure this would be the place to post this...
If you watch the deleted scenes you see how donnie dies; he is stabbed in the stomach. I find this interesting for 2 reasons
1) When Donnie and Gretchen go to the movies he starts clutching his chest for apparently no reason (could this be because he should already be dead from a wound to the chest; and so he is feeling the pain of it?)
2)Q - How did Jesus die (catholic belief)?
A - He was stabbed in the chest with a spear (the spear of destiny)
(i like brackets)
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Post by Cameron on May 8, 2005 21:02:19 GMT -5
Mabye Donnie died because he wanted to (i know that he had to - i know that he needed to) but mabye at the end he was partially suicidal
From Donnie's letter to Grandma Death "I know that when the world ends there will be so much to look forward to"
THINK
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Post by Bigboy on May 8, 2005 21:12:02 GMT -5
1) Possible. His ability to "sense" the future extending beyond the future of the TU and into the PU (ie 'his' future) maybe?
I always attributed that to his growing powers sensitising him to the condition of the TU. He feels pain as the TU degrades and time is running out...
2) Wasn't the spear to his side? The cut was made to make sure that whoever was excecuted was dead by causing pain - if they react, they aint dead.
I'm pretty sure it was the crucifixion that killed him.
I'm not convinced that he had to die or needed to, but he may have chosen to based on newfound beliefs - I'm not convinced though.
I think he simply doesn't see it coming in his groggy dreamlike state.
"I know that when the world (TU) ends there will be so much to look forward to (in the PU)"
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Post by Cameron on May 8, 2005 21:36:23 GMT -5
Mabye... I'm not so sure about the spear thing... but I think that it is a comparison... i may be wrong though  |
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Post by ProvidencePortal on May 9, 2005 11:20:23 GMT -5
I'm intrigued by interpretations of the movie that read "bad" where we typically see "good" or "heroic." So, JohnGalt, I'm not dismissive of yours.
However, the question you ask a bit into your post is the one I believe must be answered first, before any interpretation can begin: what did Donnie do that was truly "good?"
Our generally accepted interpretation (which is a hypothesis resulting from reference to the movie, the deleted scenes, the commentaries, the web site, RK's interviews and more ... all synthesized over a few year's worth of discussion) is that Donnie saves the Primary Universe and everyone in it by "unwinding" the Tangent before it can implode, taking the PU with it. This, as BB points out, seems to me to be a pretty definitively good and heroic action.
Before I can really explore a proposal that says Donnie is bad, I have to understand how you respond to the idea that he saves the universe by returning the engine. In your interpretation, is he not actually saving the universe? How so?
That would be where I would ask you to start. To some of your other points:
1) Would Jesus [destroy things]? In outrage at the misdeeds of men, yes. He overturned the tables in the temple, didn't he? And let's not forget what's promised in Revelations: a furious Son of God riding down with a host of warrior angels, holding flaming swords aloft. Anger, violence and destruction -- in the name of good -- are not only present in the Bible, they're celebrated. No judgement from me at all, so please don't misunderstand ... I only mean to point out that in pursuit of love and humanity, Jesus's actions seem to indicate that destruction is sometimes necessary. Donnie's destructive behavior then, too, could be considered heroic in that light.
2) In general, there seems to be at least some residual confusion about Donnie dying at the end, and what that means. This is a topic we've all wrestled with pretty extensively, and I can offer you what I believe (which parallels BigBoy's view): I don't think Donnie had any Living Receiver-related reason to die at the end, based on our understanding of the movie. I do see the perspective some share about Donnie having been exposed to the grandness of God and thus, being ready to go and meet Him after sending the engine back and saving the PU. However, I'm firmly in the camp that wonders, "after learning all that, why wouldn't you go on living and try to share some of that peace and understanding with others?" (I see BB here at the campfire with me.) Anywho, I offer that only in the event it may shed some light on how we typically understand Donnie's death at the conclusion of the movie.
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Post by Bigboy on May 9, 2005 11:28:41 GMT -5
Roasting marshmallows as we speak, buddy. Though I refuse to sing Kum-by-ya.  ;D |
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Post by ProvidencePortal on May 9, 2005 11:34:48 GMT -5
2)Q - How did Jesus die (catholic belief)? A - He was stabbed in the chest with a spear (the spear of destiny) This was a thoughtful post, Cameron. Just a point of clarity: as noted, the spear was jabbed into JC's side, in his ribs. And it was the crucifixion that did him in. The spear jab, along with the drag-your-own-cross parade, the crown of thorns, being deprived of water and other taunts, insults and jibes were the cruel icing on the death-sentence cake. (Holy horrific mix of metaphors, batman!) |
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Post by Cameron on May 9, 2005 20:53:24 GMT -5
Oh... right... well i thort it was interesting that he clutches his side in the movie scene... and the movie on the board was 'the last temptation of christ' anyway... im not very religous so i wouldnt no... i just thort it was a pretty gud idea
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Post by lindapaloma on May 10, 2005 1:02:03 GMT -5
Sometimes...like right now...I don't think about Donnie's death as a suicide.
I think about how his death was inevitable and he was somehow able to put it off for 28 + days.
I look at Donnie as a person who was 'afraid of dying alone' but who was eventually able to make peace with his fear.
Sometimes your subconscious can give you answers that you would never accept in the light of day.
For some unknown reason, I feel that being told that it was okay that he was an 'agnostic' helped him let go of his fear.
I think that he thought he was the only one who had doubts and the psych's explanation helped him.
After all, he was just a kid.
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Post by pedro2112guest on Aug 31, 2005 9:42:44 GMT -5
I think he simply doesn't see it coming in his groggy dreamlike state. This is the only explanation that fits the facts of the movie and the statements from the Director/writer. We know that he didn't have to die. We also know that those in the PU either dont' remember the TU or only remember parts of it in a dream. There is nothing to suggest that Donnie knew a plane engine was about to come out of the sky and crash through the roof. Consequently, unless someone comes up with some facts I overlooked, the most logical explanation for Donnies death was that he didn't see it coming. |
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Post by some guy on Jun 21, 2007 23:30:40 GMT -5
He has to die. It was not his actions that caused the univerce to get destoried it was the fact that he caused a time pardox. He was supposed to die and therefore if he lived even one more moment we would be screwed!!! PS. I love this movie!
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Post by Caveman on Sept 14, 2007 18:14:39 GMT -5
Or, what if he went back in time, and he forgot everything, and the night that he goes to sleep, he didn't know he was gonna die.
so his death would still change things back to the norm.
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Post by WilburThinksHard on Sept 2, 2008 1:28:28 GMT -5
Actually,
It's still part of the ensurance trap I believe, he has to "seal the fate of mankind" While this includes meeting the real Frank, it show's Donnie entering a wormhole at the end, becoming aware of the immediate future, and thus know's what he must do.
Roberta Sparrow also makes the statement that the storm is coming, (in this scene, look at the back of Roberta's head as she walks up, under her hair... Kind of errie to be honest... I can't tell if she is a robot, or if it's something allowing her to time travel [metal is one of the key elements of time travel~]) hinting to Donnie that he must seal his fate, as the original time travel event shouldn't have taken place, and that world that he basicly "created" was about to collapse.
The instability of the TU was going to cause a black hole, and like most of us know, a black hole sucks in everything, including time and space. To alleviate the the blackhole destroying not only the TU, but possibley the PU; Donnie time travels. As described by Roberta Sparrow, the blackhole would have been created and would potentially be able to destroy both universes, so before the fallout of the TU, I believe Donnie returns to the PU through time travel and stop's it from occuring.
Frank told him the world was going to end. Not "his world" or "this universe or that universe" or even that "Gretchen would die" Donnie, once again had to seal the fate of mankind, and this is why he went to his room so willing...
Furthermore, he finally faces his "fear" as Frank told him to pay attention during the movie in class, it's what made him ceceptibal to inherit the powers of the 4th dimension and become the living reciever.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Sept 2, 2008 12:50:18 GMT -5
in this scene, look at the back of Roberta's head as she walks up, under her hair... Kind of errie to be honest... I can't tell if she is a robot, or if it's something allowing her to time travel. This piqued my interest. What is it you believe you see under Grandma Death's hair? I've never noticed anything before; are you watching the director's cut or the theatrical version? Say more ... this is why he went to his room so willing... Well, I do think the generally accepted story of the movie supports why Donnie would go through the portal -- and thus, to his room -- willingly. No problem with that. But going to his room willingly and dying willingly are two entirely different things to me. The first he had to do to save the PU. The second ... well, that one's the rub, isn't it? |
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