Donnie and Gretchen's Corpse

[ProvidencePortal]

We began this discussion elsewhere, and I promised I'd move the conversation to a more appropriate place. So here we are.

The question on the table is: why does Donnie scoop up Gretchen's dead body and carry it with him in the closing scenes of the movie, carting it both back to his house, then (in the car) up to Carpathian Ridge?

If I choose to ignore necrophilic motivations(which I'm not saying aren't valid -- if you're disposed to believe Donnie had some unnatural fascination with Gretchen's corpse, please offer your theory; it's just not my perspective), I'm left wondering if Donnie didn't expect something to happen with her body. Did he believe she'd be resurrected somehow? Did he think he was physically going to be transported, and she would be, too?

What WAS Donnie thinking when he started keeping company with a real live () dead body?

[Bigboy]

Well through the whole movie, one of his greatest fears was being alone - At the moment Gretchen died the ensurance trap was sprung and he was forced into the only course of action left to him. He knew he was going to his fate, but didn't know for sure what that fate would be - Would he die? Would the world end? Either way, he just didn't want to be alone, or to leave her alone when (if) the end came.

[ProvidencePortal]

Thanks BB -- interesting perspective. I wonder at two things, here:

1) did Donnie really not know his fate at this point? In moving with the flow of the GAIME, I've been operating under the assumption that he's pretty much figured out that he is operating as God's instrument and, as his reward for seeing it through, he can choose to go meet God at the end of the cycle and get his enlightenment on (by way of several tons of airplane metal). If he's still unsure at this stage, the uneasy truth I've struck with his death at the end is broken for me. I also believe there's something complicating about reconciling the "everyone dies alone" bit with the idea that he's still scared of being alone even as he goes to the ridge to set his own death in motion.

2) if his fear is that he'll be alone, do we believe Gretchen's corpse is good enough company to assuage that fear? I'm not at all being tongue in cheek when I ask, how much companionship can a corpse offer? (Ugh, I just know we're setting ourselves up for some bad jokes there.)

But those things aside, I'm intrigued by the idea that Gretchen's body being there with him in the end is some sort of answer to Sparrow's "every living thing on this earth dies alone." I've taken to assuming that this was her wisest guidance to Donnie: not that we're all doomed to be alone, but rather that, at the moment of our death, the only thing of any import we have with us is our relationship with God ... that we are otherwise alone with Him.

But maybe it was more literal, and Donnie has proven her wrong twice (by engineering Gretchen's death, which occurs near him, and by having her with him as he goes to his own).

[John]

I agree with what BigBoy said.

To what ProvidencePortal said:
I don't think Donnie knew his fate at that point. I think he knew that one of two things were possible, which are 1) he (and everyone else) would go back in time or 2) the world would end. I also don't think that he knew for sure where in time he would go back to but he probably guessed it was the night of the jet engine incident (October 2) because of what he read in the Philosophy of Time Travel.

And I think that Gretchen's corpse was good enough company for Donnie because he was in love with her, dead or alive.

[Bigboy]

1) Well yes and no - I think he is in a position where his conclusion is inescapable assuming he's sane, but if you had experienced all that he had, wouldn't you doubt your own sanity? I would.

2) For want of a better term, Gretchen at this point is a 'comfort blanket'. It's irrational, but makes him feel less afraid of what's to come.

LOVE and FEAR man!

(A side note - in the DC you hear Frank tell Donnie to pay attention to JC's video, because he 'might miss something'. The message may be cynical hokum - but is actually very important for Donnie in the context of the story - he must act aout of LOVE. and not FEAR his fate...)

[Phil]

John said:

And I think that Gretchen's corpse was good enough company for Donnie because he was in love with her, dead or alive.

Yeah, just the fact that someone/something was with him at what could have been the end for all he knew. And the fact that it was someone he loved aswell, even if they are dead, its still better than being by yourself.
In therapy he did say that when the end came he didnt want to be alone

[Omnipotent]

ProvidencePortal said:

If I choose to ignore necrophilic motivations(which I'm not saying aren't valid -- if you're disposed to believe Donnie had some unnatural fascination with Gretchen's corpse, please offer your theory; it's just not my perspective)

LMAO say my name Jason.

Seriously though I agree with John, I don't think he looked at it like that, he was just in love with her. Maybe if we had a loved one die in front of us we'd bug out too.

I truly don't forsee any hidden meaning behind this action but I'm sure somebody has one.

[greedy]

i think him taking gretchen with him was just a reaction gretchen was with him in his heart but just like when we are young and scared we hold are own velvateen rabbits tight even though they arn't alive but after awhile wouldn't the company of gretchen get alittle cold

[Madridarko]

I think that it was the most logical thing for Donnie to take Gretch's corpse with him. If you trully love somebody (think of a boyfriend, girlfriend, mom, dad cousin, grandparent...etc..) you wouldn't leave their corpse lying on the ground. So his first and instant reaction was to go home.... (retreat to safety) he see's the black hole, everything falls into position and he completely understands his purpouse and he "feels" he must go to the ridge.

I think donnie had a vague idea of what sacrifices he must make (through the POTT) but he still expressed doubt, shown clearly in his letter to Grandma death in which he states something along the lines of "Sometimes I hope what you have written is a work of fiction"

[ProvidencePortal]

So what we've concluded thus far is that Donnie scooping up dead Gretchen and transporting her first to his house, then putting her in the car and driving her to the ridge, is an act of either lonliness or impulse?

Though understandable, this feels shaky to me. I understand Donnie is unusual -- his powers are unusual, as is his past and his destiny -- but his strangeness doesn't seem at first blush to suggest it would include the Corpse-o-Friend society. I mean, all things considered, it's a dead body. In talking about love and fear of being alone, let's not lose sight of that. He didn't choose Frank's still-warm body to play his high-occupancy lane passenger seat dummy, right?

But I do see some of what each of you is suggesting in this: what else could he do? She's his beloved. Her body is there in the street. He can't wait for the ambulance and the police, because he'll be arrested. And he can't just leave here there in the dirt, can he? Surely she deserves better than that?

So maybe it's a matter of being without choices in doing what's right and proper for her body after death?

[greedy]

perhaps just perhaps he has to chose which manipulated dead to go back in time "with" to determine the path he shall take

[Madridarko]

greedy said:

perhaps just perhaps he has to chose which manipulated dead to go back in time "with" to determine the path he shall take

I am sorry but that did not make a bit of sense! I don't understand what your is your focal point with this comment.

How does going back in time with a manipulated dead affect the ultimate outcome?

[greedy]

i have always seen it as a path to take if the living recipiant stays in the TU and it collapses then thats end game so that says to me they have a choice of where to go in the TU or back to the PU and the manipulated dead is a physical representaion of that choice

[Madridarko]

But you go back to point near to where the TU has started, you can't just jump in here or there at your will... You go back right to the beggening.. I think I kinda see how you are approaching the problem, but it still feels akward, or at least your wording feels awkard.

[Danny]

ok, i think the ultimate question is, how does Donnie travel back in time? And does Gretchen go back with him and if not where does he leave her? Also at the end we see Donnie in his bedroom laughing seemingly at something, what is it or is he simply alone?