IS IT GOD OR PEOPLE FROM THE FUTURE?

[Omnipotent]

I wasn't even fully aware of this Future Scientists theory until recently and to me it ruins my perception of Donnie Darko so I'm riding with ignorance and simply not buying into it.

[ProvidencePortal]

greedy said:

having already run for mayor of my home town held down two jobs for over a year went to school full time and spent a week and a half in whasington dc run a simulation for the politically gifted

I was going to let this go, but I stand firmly in Omni's corner and, since he answered, so will I.

I don't think you're a regular 18-year-old, except with regard to the fact that you seem desperate for an identity ... like many teens are. You ran for mayor or your hometown? That's great -- very ambitious. But why did you run, greedy? Because you feel an altruisitc duty to serve your community? Or because you thought doing so fit in with the idea you're building of yourself as "politically gifted?"

(And at the risk of cruelty, let me echo O-Jack: being politically gifted and grammatically retarded are mutually exclusive. That means you can't be a politician if you write like a first grader. I'm sorry, it's true.)

I just think it's unfortunate when someone assumes an identity and a perspective -- whether it's one I agree with or not -- before they've lived long enough to really understand what it means. It might be cute and get a reaction out of people for you to act like a gun-toting, Marine-becoming, Dem-bashing Republican ... but at 18, that's all you're doing: acting.

Learning never stops, so you ought not get settled in and just ape behaviors you see other people exhibiting ... especially when you're so inexperienced. I'm 30, and I'm still amazed every day at the nuance of humanity and how vast the gray area is between the very, very rare issues that are black and white ... if ANY exist. Ask GrandpaDeath, who just joined us -- he's over 50, and I bet you he'll say he learned something yesterday, and changed his mind about an he'd had before opinion.

So, that's my point. Don't go cracking wise just because politics are polarizing and it's an easy identity to slip into. There are no true 18-year-old party members; if you back issues, back issues, but don't jump a bandwagon. You just stunt your growth and make it hard for people to take you seriously.

And as a bright young man in your late teens, isn't that what you want? To be taken seriously?

edit: added "to"

[greedy]

yes i would love to be taken seriously but i think u will agree it s the quality of the time you have spent not the quantity and i am not a Dem-bashing Republican as u have percived i ran as an independant which i felt was the reason i cdould not get a base of voters in a heavly republican town but i ran independant because i am registerd independant i do not affiliate with any party on a presidential or goubanatorial level mearly on a congressional and that can be changed depending on the stance of a party in the house givin the lvl of controll enjoyed by republicans in the house and senate i would vote for Zell Miller and Barrock Obama to be the senaters of North Carolina and as far as the gun toting Marine yes i find it amusing to see peoples reactions to some of our extrimites however it is a CORPS value we do belive in i at once wanted an identaty but then i realized not having a social indentaty can be very benaficial when the proverbial shit hits the fan i ran for mayor because i felt i could do a good job and yes it would be good experiance for future political ventures and you will note i have already expressed a great intrest in hearing what grandpa death has to say i think he will bring some wonderful unexplored perspectives and i realize if willbe difficult to be a politician when i am a as u have so nicely put it grammatic retard (i am not offended by the way the truth is the truth) and if your wondering i like people to go at there own pace put periods in where u feel you need a break in my post's.

[PyramidHead]

Okay...moving back on topic, this is my take: Richard Kelly wanted to explore a new interpretation of the film. In the original DVD commentary, he states that for him the story was about "divine intervention." So basically, he's playing around with what he's created. But several key elements, like the conversation with Monitoff about God's will, the moments in therapy that he alludes to a higher power, and much of the imagery throughout the film, are to me incompatible with the technological interpretation Kelly has put forth. It makes a little more sense of the "They made me do it" message, though, since that doesn't really fit with the spiritual interpretation...wouldn't "He made me do it" be more appropriate? In any case, I prefer the original, but would like to be able to insert some of the new scenes from the Director's Cut to make my own "hybrid" Darko... Until I get a DVD burner, I'll settle for the original.

[Bigboy]

"They made me do it" message, though, since that doesn't really fit with the spiritual interpretation...

That depends on your theological assumptions of a single God.
There are many polytheistic faiths where 'They made me do it' makes perfect spiritual sense.
There are even some where both apply - Hinduism for example.

[PyramidHead]

You're correct, Bigboy, but Donnie clearly is not a Hindu or even a person of faith per se, so he only goes by what he experiences. He's never seen any proof either way, according to his testimony to Dr. Thurman. So it confuses me that he could see a man in a bunny suit telling him to flood the school, and then write "They made me do it," with no prior background in religion (other than Christianity, presumably).

[Phil]

They could refer to God, angels and everything in heaven. Then the "they" would be correct

[gretchen]

"they" could be referring to the coupled force of frank and "god"... since frank is NOT god, and would therefore be an alternate force in manipulating donnie as we know.

[Bigboy]

'They' could even refer to the Future Scientists (in the DC especially).
To me Donnie always seems to be only semi-conscious or sleepwalking during the flooding, and it seems that he gains his other-worldly/future intuitions subconsciously throughout the movie. In this state he would not be predisposed to worldly dogma - just the new insight he is gaining, so 'they' could refer to whoever is truly driving his actions - whether it's Frank and God, multiple gods, future scientists or voices in his head.

Also 'they' doesn't have to refer to a plural - it can also be used as a singular nominative, replacing 'he', 'she' or 'it'. So 'They' could refer to God, without being gender specific or reducing the stature of God to 'it'.

[ProvidencePortal]

It's interesting that this isn't the first time we've found ourselves in an etymoligic discussion while trying to reconicle an interpretation of the movie (see also the deus ex machina discussion, the "my father before me" question and others).

Couple things on this point. First, I very respectfully disagree with the suggestion that using "they" as a singular pronoun is widely accepted -- especially as a subject. To some extent, it is true that some writers will pair "they/them/their"as an antecedent following a grammatically singular subject, just to avoid potentially akward phrases like "his or hers" (ex. "Each student was asked to cover their book with a protective paper," where their really ought to be his or hers to avoid confusion). As a subject, I believe "they" always means "the ones named before," plural.

So, with possible exceptions made for Donnie's confusion, I don't see a way in which "They made me do it" can be interpreted to refer to a singular entity. That said, I don't think the plural pronoun here in anyway restricts the interpretation that DD is a Christian-mythos parable, because there are myriad possibilities for what "they" could mean. Some suggestions:
- Donnie intuitively understands, as we sometimes do things in dream-state, that Frank is representative of several entities, perhaps a host of them. So for him, Frank stands for "they" -- the beings who are compelling him to perform his LR actions.
- Donnie has begun to understand that the world is in danger and all the people in it will perish if he doesn't act; he is flooding the school and burning the house for "them," for the people of the world ... which he might see as "them" making him do it
- Similarly, Donnie might have by then become semi-aware of the Manipulated Living; in many ways, saying "they made me do it" about the MLs is a picture-perfect definition of their role in the cycle
- Maybe the "they" is additional evidence that not only is Gretchen also Manipulated Dead, but that Donnie is aware of her status and influence on him as comparable to Frank's.

The visual is so striking and the statement so cliched, I'm forced to wonder whether it's meant to be a mistake -- could it be that Frank instructed Donnie to write the proclomation exactly because it would lead people to inaccurate conclusions? Is there some advantage to their operations for Donnie to play up the stereotypical schizophrenic?

[PyramidHead]

Now, to add another confusing element to the mix: there's good reason to believe Donnie didn't write that at all, but Frank did!

Donnie's handwriting doesn't look like that, as you can tell from his chalkboard performance. Franks, however, as evidenced by "Frank was here, went to get beer" at the end, is very similar. The director points this out in the commentary, leading me to believe that it was intentional. So what would Frank mean by "they made me do it?"

There is a counter-argument, however. Even more similar than the refigerator writing is the "28:06:42:12" message on Donnie's arm. It's on his left arm, and he went through the trouble to take the black marker with him while he was sleepwalking, so he probably wrote it. So perhaps he wrote the message under the Mongrel after all.

[ProvidencePortal]

PyramidHead said:

Donnie's handwriting doesn't look like that,

Great point, Pyramid -- and one requiring yet more meta-narrative. I've been working under the assumption that Donnie's writing changes while in the meditative/dream-like state BigBoy called out a few posts above. He's obviously influenced by and connected (maybe even spiritually?) to Frank in that state; could we surmise that the influence is so great that Donnie's handwriting takes on elements of Frank's?

So in this interpretation, Donnie would do the physical writing, but in the supernatural/spiritual sense, Frank's writing right along with him.

... and yet again I bump right up against the schizophrenia storyline, by suggesting that, though we see them in their scenes as different and distinct, MD Frank may actually reside only in Donnie's mind.

[Tor Robinson]

Guest-christopher said:

WELL, I just finished watching Donnie Darko the directors cut for the second time this evening. First, to just take in the new scenes and effects, and THEN to listen to the commentary from Richard Kelly and Kevin Smith.
And this commentary has probably raised more questions that it answered.
I wont go into the whole "where did the engine come from" debate...I understand that part of the movie fine and why Donnie had to send it back to the Primary Universe so that the Tangent Universe could be closed off.
HOWEVER...
Now I am a little confused as too whom was behind it all. After first viewing the movie about a year and a half ago, I figured that GOD or some higher power was manipulating Donnie and the other inhabitants of Middlesex, Virginia in an effort to repair the timeline.
But Richard Kelly says that his original theory was that people from the future were trying to view the past and accidentally pierced the space time continuum causing the creation of the tangent universe and that these same said people were manipulating everything, NOT GOD. This theory is further bolstered by the addition of new effects which seem to indicate the presence of some kind of technology infuencing Donnie.
Now, I was just wondering what opinion the rest of you had on this...WHO DO YOU THINK WAS BEHIND IT ALL.?

I saw the directors cut for the first time in stores here a week ago. Imight buy it now that I only have the older one


WOW! I never thought about it being people form the future!...makes me think of it differently...
I might just watch it again tonight when my parents fall asleep.

LOL I'v had the movie for less than 6 months, but I have watched it by myslef at night atleast 15 times!

[Madridarko]

Also please note that "They made me do it" was written with what I belive was spray paint... which is to a certain degree more difficult to write with instead of pencil/pen...............

[Omnipotent]

Ok I watched The Director's Cut with the commentary on and listened to the people from the future comments. It's not quite as devaluing as I had perceived but I don't like it that much. Interesting twist though...