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Post by Bigboy on Feb 23, 2006 19:01:52 GMT -5
But if cause and consequence do not apply, what good does his death serve? For his death to save anyone, or change anything, cause and consequence must hold true.
If they don't then his death wouldn't make a difference one way or the other - which makes it pointless - if indeed Donnie chose to die.
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Post by matedy on Feb 23, 2006 19:05:17 GMT -5
wow. i never thought about that...that donnie could have chosen to live instead of commit suicide. but it seems that Donnie almost believes that he needs to sacrifice himself for the others to survive, as in his poem in english class, if we assume that he represents Frank also as himself.
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Post by Bigboy on Feb 23, 2006 19:23:59 GMT -5
this poem?
"A storm is coming, Frank says. A storm
that will swallow the children... and I
will deliver them from the kingdom of
pain."
(beat)
"I will deliver the children to their
doorsteps. I will send the monsters back
to the underground. I will send them
back to a place where no one can see them
...except for me. Because I am Donnie
Darko."
I can see how it refers to saving people - in my opinion every living thing, since he prevents the collapse of the TU into a black-hole that would destroy "all existence" (From the Philosophy of Time Travel).
But I can't see any reference to self sacrifice being a necessary part of that....
There are a couple of other references though - "Last Temptation of Christ" playing at the cinema, and other accounts of people being killed by "atifacts" in the PoTT - but niether are particularly conclusive IMO.
He may have done what he did knowing he would die, because of the mechanics of returning the Artifact - hence laughter of resignation. Or it could be that he woke and believed it over - a laugh of relief and simply DID NOT see the engine coming...
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Post by matedy on Feb 24, 2006 21:08:44 GMT -5
ok, ok, ok. I no I was rushing into the self-sacrifice bit. But, I guess, its more that he bears the pain. He is the only one conscious of the monsters in the poem, and he was the only one conscious of the alternate universe, possible deaths, etc. In his death he is unrecognized as a hero, or of it being a sacrifice of any kind. And yet he accepts it because, maybee, he thinks that just remaining alive would be the easy way out, and it would leave things unfinished. I dont know; this theory is pretty out there and I'm just writing random thoughts down, its just a possibility.
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Post by Bigboy on Feb 24, 2006 23:09:51 GMT -5
It's certainly a possibility - who knows what was really going through his mind at the end...?
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Post by matedy on Feb 25, 2006 18:35:39 GMT -5
yeah...i mean, all we can really do is create endless assumptions and theories, hoping to make some great "revelation" that can give the answer to everything
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Post by Bigboy on Feb 25, 2006 19:16:18 GMT -5
Yeah. My personal interpretation is pretty simplistic - he's laughing out of relief; "holy cow, its all over" or "thank god it was just a dream". It also goes some way to explain why he remains in bed - he simply didnt see it coming...
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Post by matedy on Feb 25, 2006 22:19:14 GMT -5
yeah, i guess. although that takes away a lot of his glory and grace. to think that he just accidentaly died makes the movie seem sort of pointless, but that might just be whole idea behind it anyway...o well. everyone likes a good conspiracy. ;-)
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Feb 27, 2006 10:30:27 GMT -5
We shouldn't forget the interpretation that suggests Donnie is laughing and choses to die because he's "successfully" concluded the LR cycle and is ready to be with God and "understand what this is all about" -- the reward for the LR who ends along with the corruption.
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Post by deem on Mar 2, 2006 5:31:44 GMT -5
donnie is shown the future and the events that happen because of his continued exsistence. all of the people that would have been invovled in his future are shown what he is shown, so that they may see how donnie is affecting there lives, for better or worse, by giving his life(example: jim cunningham would have been arrested for the child porn and his name would have been tainted, yet he commited suicide to avoid that coupled with the guilt of what he had done). another example of this reasoning is the scene at the end where it shows frank(the human) touching his right eye. this is happening before october 28, the end of the world. he has seen the future at the exact moment donnie dies.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Mar 2, 2006 16:29:53 GMT -5
donnie is shown the future and the events that happen because of his continued exsistence. It must be the recent conversations I've been having with Bigboy, but it just occured to me: there are two major interpretations of the movie: the LR cycle, which most of us on the forum share ... and the "shown your fate to avoid it through death," or the "Last Temptation" one, which seems to come from watching the movie without the external texts. ... and they are opposites with regard to causality! Well, let me play with this and see where it goes ... The first assumes there's a cycle wherein, through a series of unfortunate and sad occurences, a Living Receiver is caused to move the artifact into the PU from the TU, thus saving the PU. Then, he dies. The rift in the 4th clicked the cycle on, and the cycle (through MLs and MDs) caused Donnie to save the universe. In the second, Donnie is given a vision of how terrible life will be, for him and his loved ones, if he misses his fate -- dying below the engine. This helps him make the decision to die at the end. His desire for others' happiness causes him to kill himself. In one, the causal influence is the cycle, which manifests as people in an alternate reality pushing Donnie to save the universe. No death required. In the other, the causal influence is Donnie himself -- more specifically, his love for those around him. Death required. Don't know what to make of that, but it's interesting. |
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Post by theawesome on Jul 28, 2006 17:00:41 GMT -5
I know that this has almost nothing to do with the conversation, but I continue to hear some people say that the plane is going to crash in the primary universe and I just want to correct this. From the last conversation on www.donniedarko.com we hear that the plane does not crash. Even if someone brings up that the engine that fell is the exact replica of the one on the jumbo jet the FAA will undoubtebly deny it. This will just prove (like the chapter four of the PoTT says) that the engine will be linked to religious Iconography because its appearence seems to defy logical explanation. Therefor, the cycle will not continue and another tangent universe will not be formed. It was not neccesary for Donnie to die, but it certainly didn't doom the universe. |
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Reed
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by Reed on Jul 31, 2006 3:19:10 GMT -5
this poem? I can see how it refers to saving people - in my opinion every living thing, since he prevents the collapse of the TU into a black-hole that would destroy "all existence" (From the Philosophy of Time Travel). But I can't see any reference to self sacrifice being a necessary part of that.... There are a couple of other references though - "Last Temptation of Christ" playing at the cinema, and other accounts of people being killed by "atifacts" in the PoTT - but niether are particularly conclusive IMO. He may have done what he did knowing he would die, because of the mechanics of returning the Artifact - hence laughter of resignation. Or it could be that he woke and believed it over - a laugh of relief and simply DID NOT see the engine coming... Perhaps it's simpler than all of that. Let us say that preventing the plane crash was the purpose of the time travel (or one of several purposes). So, the engine that fell off the plane, they send it back in time, knowing that the FAA will discover the serial number and match it to the plane BEFORE the flight. The plane lands on Donnie's room, but does not kill him as he's out sleepwalking. So the FAA investigates, doubtlessly does an inspection of the plane, etc. and finally decides that everything is okay and lets the plane fly again (and it crashes, "again"). Clearly the first attempt was insufficient. But if there were a fatality when the engine fell, then it would be more likely to draw a more dramatic responce, and keep the plane grounded longer for a more thorough inspection, perhaps avoiding the plane crash altogether. So Donnie's death is indeed a sacrifice, which saves the passengers on the plane, including Sparkle Motion and his mother. And during the 28 days, he manages to take care of some other business as well... |
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Post by Bigboy on Jul 31, 2006 9:04:31 GMT -5
The only problem with that is there is no evidence that there is a plane crash at all...
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Reed
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by Reed on Jul 31, 2006 18:19:40 GMT -5
The only problem with that is there is no evidence that there is a plane crash at all... Well, there's a jet engine, and a dead teenager. Unlike when Donnie wasn't killed, it wouldn't be so easy to fix up the Darko house and get them to remain quiet about everything. |
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