Post by jtgunslinger on Dec 12, 2007 19:37:50 GMT -5
I just watched this movie for the first time and I’m trying to understand it. I haven’t seen the DC version but I did the online puzzle. I see a debate over if its multi dimension or time travel and I have to say that I think it’s both. Here is how I understand the main plot. To be followed with more specific explanations of specific events.
Let’s say that some time in 2010 a freak wormhole opens up and rips the engine off of a plane. It doesn't just send it back in time, but it sends it to a parallel dimension, and THAT is the problem, not the time traveling.
If you look at time and space as a whole then it’s ok to move something from the future to the past because its still exists in reality. When you take something to another dimension it creates a "hole" in reality that starts to unravel because now it never existed past present or future. If we view reality as a cinnamon roll wrapping all of time into one object, then its ok to move a raisin around on the roll (moving it to different locations in time), however if the raisin is taken away from the roll then it can't exist anywhere on the roll (in time) and thus creates a black hole paradox.
Anyways, this means that in the PU, which we never see until the end, life goes on and NOTHING happens until 2010 or so when the engine vanishes are reality is destroyed. However since the engine isn't on the PU cinnamon roll anymore it has to be "somewhere" and so it shows up in the TU crashing into the Drako residence.
In order to rebalance the PU it needs a plane engine back at sometime and someplace. The TU happens to have its version of the original, an exact copy, which can be sent back (I assume the original won’t work since it’s already been destroyed on impact once). Donnie is gifted with the power to do this, the engine appearing where he should have been in the TU being how he is chosen. All of the TU then unconsciously (manipulated living) and consciously (manipulated dead) teach him what he must know and prepares him for what he must do. Everything that happens in the movie then is to both prepare him to make the right choice, which is his own death. Despite what the director said on the commentary I have to agree with the “I figured it out” poster. His power was not omnipotent. He had to send it back by drawing it to his other self. That is why the book talks of examples of people impaled.
Points related to my theory:
~I don't think that sparrow had a personal experience. In her books she writes as one who was inspired with important information for the future, not as if she is writing from her own experience with it.
~Donnie had to die, but he was at peace and so he was laughing with relief. Being the receptacle it was being drawn to him in addition to the gravity. He didn’t get out of bed because he didn’t want to risk anyone else to die. If he moved it would have followed him, and he “knew” already that if he stayed where he was no one else in the house would be harmed.
~Can something travel through time and dimension and space simultaneously? Perhaps it can’t. We don’t know where the original engine falls off at, but what if it was right over the Drako’s residence and so it only travels through time and dimension? That could explain why Donnie can’t draw it to a version of himself that is 90 years old... He needs to send it from the TU exactly right: when it’s at a location directly above a time where Donnie will be. We know that it’s the exact same engine from the website, and we also know it should have been in the right place because it was from the plan his mom and sister were on and they should have been arriving at any moment. Perhaps that’s the only reason for that coincidence, to let us know its right over his house, NOT on its way from Denver to San Francisco.
~Why was the world was ending at that specific time? Why not instantly? Why not 100 years later? From what I understood the PU is eradicated instantly but the TU survives only as long as there is a chance to save the PU. The conditions for saving it are to have Donnie send it back exactly when the engine is over his house, and it would have to be within his own lifetime. Therefore if he had choose not to send it back when he did, there would not have been another “perfect” condition for sending it back, and not ever again being able to be sent back, the PU would then collapses at that time, when the opportunity for continual existence fades. The countdown then is not given at the beginning because he was preordained to succeed, but it was also not given arbitrarily.
~The rush at the end if when Donnie is finally completely motivated to make the right choice (through finding love for Gretchen), and knowledge in what he must do. After the “party” he decides to finally “do it”, but first he must go and kill Frank to satisfy time travel paradox.
~I don’t think Gretchen’s death was intentional or necessary. A “manipulated dead” Gretchen never visits him as far as we know. He wasn’t too bothered by it because he knew she would live on in the PU once he restored it. Another theory might be that only the PU would be destroyed at the end of the countdown and the TU would exist some time further, perhaps until Donnie dies(Although it would have to go at some point or what’s the reason for saving one universe at the expense of another?), and therefore her death is unintentional on Donnie’s part, but needs to happen to ensure he doesn’t have anything to “live for” if the TU continued to exist longer.
~Why does he burn down the kiddy pornographer’s house? It could have been part of building his trust in Frank, doing something that is “bad” but having good come from it shows franks omnipotence and good character. Another idea is that God intended to stop him and the shame of his exposure in the TU is remembered in the PU causing him to stop himself from doing it further (not that I think God would want and plan for him to commit suicide, as a Christian I believe he could have stopped through repentance, but then again I suicide is better than a life of kiddy porn if he is going to go on and hurt little children that way)
Anyways, lots of ideas here perhaps they have already been made but having read some of the recent posts it seems that there is no definite answers still and writing down my ideas has at the least helped me to find clearer understanding of what the movie means to me, hope it helps you as well.
Let’s say that some time in 2010 a freak wormhole opens up and rips the engine off of a plane. It doesn't just send it back in time, but it sends it to a parallel dimension, and THAT is the problem, not the time traveling.
If you look at time and space as a whole then it’s ok to move something from the future to the past because its still exists in reality. When you take something to another dimension it creates a "hole" in reality that starts to unravel because now it never existed past present or future. If we view reality as a cinnamon roll wrapping all of time into one object, then its ok to move a raisin around on the roll (moving it to different locations in time), however if the raisin is taken away from the roll then it can't exist anywhere on the roll (in time) and thus creates a black hole paradox.
Anyways, this means that in the PU, which we never see until the end, life goes on and NOTHING happens until 2010 or so when the engine vanishes are reality is destroyed. However since the engine isn't on the PU cinnamon roll anymore it has to be "somewhere" and so it shows up in the TU crashing into the Drako residence.
In order to rebalance the PU it needs a plane engine back at sometime and someplace. The TU happens to have its version of the original, an exact copy, which can be sent back (I assume the original won’t work since it’s already been destroyed on impact once). Donnie is gifted with the power to do this, the engine appearing where he should have been in the TU being how he is chosen. All of the TU then unconsciously (manipulated living) and consciously (manipulated dead) teach him what he must know and prepares him for what he must do. Everything that happens in the movie then is to both prepare him to make the right choice, which is his own death. Despite what the director said on the commentary I have to agree with the “I figured it out” poster. His power was not omnipotent. He had to send it back by drawing it to his other self. That is why the book talks of examples of people impaled.
Points related to my theory:
~I don't think that sparrow had a personal experience. In her books she writes as one who was inspired with important information for the future, not as if she is writing from her own experience with it.
~Donnie had to die, but he was at peace and so he was laughing with relief. Being the receptacle it was being drawn to him in addition to the gravity. He didn’t get out of bed because he didn’t want to risk anyone else to die. If he moved it would have followed him, and he “knew” already that if he stayed where he was no one else in the house would be harmed.
~Can something travel through time and dimension and space simultaneously? Perhaps it can’t. We don’t know where the original engine falls off at, but what if it was right over the Drako’s residence and so it only travels through time and dimension? That could explain why Donnie can’t draw it to a version of himself that is 90 years old... He needs to send it from the TU exactly right: when it’s at a location directly above a time where Donnie will be. We know that it’s the exact same engine from the website, and we also know it should have been in the right place because it was from the plan his mom and sister were on and they should have been arriving at any moment. Perhaps that’s the only reason for that coincidence, to let us know its right over his house, NOT on its way from Denver to San Francisco.
~Why was the world was ending at that specific time? Why not instantly? Why not 100 years later? From what I understood the PU is eradicated instantly but the TU survives only as long as there is a chance to save the PU. The conditions for saving it are to have Donnie send it back exactly when the engine is over his house, and it would have to be within his own lifetime. Therefore if he had choose not to send it back when he did, there would not have been another “perfect” condition for sending it back, and not ever again being able to be sent back, the PU would then collapses at that time, when the opportunity for continual existence fades. The countdown then is not given at the beginning because he was preordained to succeed, but it was also not given arbitrarily.
~The rush at the end if when Donnie is finally completely motivated to make the right choice (through finding love for Gretchen), and knowledge in what he must do. After the “party” he decides to finally “do it”, but first he must go and kill Frank to satisfy time travel paradox.
~I don’t think Gretchen’s death was intentional or necessary. A “manipulated dead” Gretchen never visits him as far as we know. He wasn’t too bothered by it because he knew she would live on in the PU once he restored it. Another theory might be that only the PU would be destroyed at the end of the countdown and the TU would exist some time further, perhaps until Donnie dies(Although it would have to go at some point or what’s the reason for saving one universe at the expense of another?), and therefore her death is unintentional on Donnie’s part, but needs to happen to ensure he doesn’t have anything to “live for” if the TU continued to exist longer.
~Why does he burn down the kiddy pornographer’s house? It could have been part of building his trust in Frank, doing something that is “bad” but having good come from it shows franks omnipotence and good character. Another idea is that God intended to stop him and the shame of his exposure in the TU is remembered in the PU causing him to stop himself from doing it further (not that I think God would want and plan for him to commit suicide, as a Christian I believe he could have stopped through repentance, but then again I suicide is better than a life of kiddy porn if he is going to go on and hurt little children that way)
Anyways, lots of ideas here perhaps they have already been made but having read some of the recent posts it seems that there is no definite answers still and writing down my ideas has at the least helped me to find clearer understanding of what the movie means to me, hope it helps you as well.
