Post by vlad on Aug 4, 2007 22:33:55 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm waking up an old thread/topic/forum. I really thought that Kelly tried a bit too hard to explain the story with the Director's Cut: the overlays of the POTT in certain scenes, Frank saying that "God loves his children", the introduction of a corrupted universe, the introduction of the terms of tangent universe and primary universe, the fireworks at the end... etc. I felt like it made the movie lose a lot of depth. Personally, it made it much less believable and somewhat less meaningful.
I read a few ideas here and this seemed to connect to what I was thinking:
darkomovie.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=ending&action=display&thread=1084093374
The way that Don explains it seems to be more complex and interesting. An infinite loop would be created if the jet engine falls off, 28 days later, through the portal and into the past - but Donnie's sleepwalking helps him avoid the jet engine even without Frank's help the first time through the loop.
Thereafter, Donnie could still meet Gretchen and follow a similar timeline - maybe with some variations. However, 28 days later the universe would always again restart the loop when the engine is sent backwards and changes history - hence the future stops existing. Donnie doesn't know that he can make a difference.
Perhaps the infinite loop went on for a few times, until there was a timeline where Frank killed Gretchen and got shot - and his ghost got sent back through the portal along with the engine (perhaps in one of the cycles he was close enough to the portal). Perhaps it ALWAYS happened that way regardless - which would motivate Frank who, as a ghost aware of time travel, was in a position to bring back information from the future and thus change the past.
Perhaps the first time this cycle happened (where Frank gets killed), Frank (the ghost) did nothing and watched the cycle repeat itself. Perhaps he experimented with changing other variables but without success. The next cycle (or a few cycles later) he decided to intervene and figured that MAYBE if Donnie died, then the plane that loses the engine in the future would not be allowed to fly that low again over a residential area 28 days later (remember that the FAA were concerned with how localized the damage was in the house - indicating a low flight height of the plane?).
If this worked, then the plane would be able to avoid the portal that rips the engine off and hence end the loop! The future could then continue, even though the "artifact" would still remain from a plane that still has both of its engines intact at that time. This isn't such a big problem though, since the jet engine's appearance would only change the past ONCE. Thereafter time can flow normally through the appearance of the portal 28 days later - IF nothing gets trapped in the portal.
Of course, to achieve this kind of timeline, Frank would need Donnie to do everything on time and, most importantly, to realize that he needed to die. To achieve such a timeline would require some tweaking. Hence, in the movie, Frank seems to know exactly what needs to be done. This is probably after quite a bit of looping and unsuccessful experimentation with Donnie's mind. Definitely, he needed Donnie to obey him - hence he HAD to make it seem as though he saved him initially. Beyond that, there was more experimentation needed.
Maybe breaking the water main may have ensured that Donnie would meet Gretchen and fall in love with her soon enough, in order to continue a desired timeline. In order not to get Donnie caught by authorities for this action, Frank may have found that burying the axe in the statue and writing in his own handwriting would decrease the suspicion on Donnie.
Donnie needed to be made aware of time travel in order for him to be interested in learning more about it. This would lead him to learn about the POTT book, learn about Roberta Sparrow, and eventually lead to the incident with Gretchen and Frank.
Furthermore, burning down Cunningham's house was necessary to ensure that both parents were out of town, probably culminating in Donnie's ability to drive the car up to the mountain himself with Gretchen's body to see where the time loop starts (seeing the engine fall through the portal) - instead of getting caught by police with two dead bodies and his fingerprints on a gun, hence denying him the opportunity to see the portal swallowing the jet engine.
After seeing HOW the world ends (from the mountain, he sees the engine fall into the portal), Donnie MIGHT figure that if he stays in bed this time, he can stop the loop from occuring again if the FAA have a death on their hands due to some random engine falling from a low altitude into a residential home. Maybe they will then decide to regulate flight altitudes better in the future.
So Donnie's death could be the reason for the termination of an infinite loop. His death would also prevent the death of Gretchen (who wouldn't meet Donnie and get run over by Frank - at least in that particular timeline). Donnie's death would also save the lives of whoever was on the plane, perhaps his sister and mother if they are on it (we see that the cabin depressurizes, so they most likely do die in that timeline). BUT more importantly (or at least to Frank, who orchestrates all of this), Frank gets to stop being a ghost trapped in an infinite loop - he gets to do whatever ghosts do.
Just in case the question is raised about the living Frank honking the horn of his car differently at the end (longer, more pronounced) - this could just be due to the slightly different timeline followed in order to break the infinite loop. The engine could have fallen slightly earlier or slightly later, perhaps due to the presence of Donnie's sister and mother on the plane, perhaps due to another reason. This time the difference would allow the living Frank to see an engine falling down onto the house of his girlfriend. Perhaps when he looked into the mirror this time, the engine was illuminated enough (different altitude) for him to be tipped off about its presence. Hence the desperate honking to get his girlfriend's attention to hopefully get her to come out. Donnie still knew that he had to die.
I think that's a much more interesting take than the Living Receiver fiction, Tangent and Primary universes, manipulated living, manipulated dead, etc. These concepts complicate the movie way too much.
It also makes Donnie's death meaningful (which bugged me greatly with the given explanation by Kelly, like many others). It makes Frank's regret in the theater meaningful (instead of cutting it out in the Director's Cut of the movie). There is probably more that I can't think of at this moment. Most importantly, to me at least, it doesn't make the explanation seem as though it is spoon-fed to us like a story book.
Can this theory work? I'd really like to think it over more if there are flaws in it. Sorry for any obvious errors. Also, sorry if someone thought this up before - please direct me to the posts since I would be very interested in reading about them. It is difficult to find something this specific.
I read a few ideas here and this seemed to connect to what I was thinking:
darkomovie.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=ending&action=display&thread=1084093374
The way that Don explains it seems to be more complex and interesting. An infinite loop would be created if the jet engine falls off, 28 days later, through the portal and into the past - but Donnie's sleepwalking helps him avoid the jet engine even without Frank's help the first time through the loop.
Thereafter, Donnie could still meet Gretchen and follow a similar timeline - maybe with some variations. However, 28 days later the universe would always again restart the loop when the engine is sent backwards and changes history - hence the future stops existing. Donnie doesn't know that he can make a difference.
Perhaps the infinite loop went on for a few times, until there was a timeline where Frank killed Gretchen and got shot - and his ghost got sent back through the portal along with the engine (perhaps in one of the cycles he was close enough to the portal). Perhaps it ALWAYS happened that way regardless - which would motivate Frank who, as a ghost aware of time travel, was in a position to bring back information from the future and thus change the past.
Perhaps the first time this cycle happened (where Frank gets killed), Frank (the ghost) did nothing and watched the cycle repeat itself. Perhaps he experimented with changing other variables but without success. The next cycle (or a few cycles later) he decided to intervene and figured that MAYBE if Donnie died, then the plane that loses the engine in the future would not be allowed to fly that low again over a residential area 28 days later (remember that the FAA were concerned with how localized the damage was in the house - indicating a low flight height of the plane?).
If this worked, then the plane would be able to avoid the portal that rips the engine off and hence end the loop! The future could then continue, even though the "artifact" would still remain from a plane that still has both of its engines intact at that time. This isn't such a big problem though, since the jet engine's appearance would only change the past ONCE. Thereafter time can flow normally through the appearance of the portal 28 days later - IF nothing gets trapped in the portal.
Of course, to achieve this kind of timeline, Frank would need Donnie to do everything on time and, most importantly, to realize that he needed to die. To achieve such a timeline would require some tweaking. Hence, in the movie, Frank seems to know exactly what needs to be done. This is probably after quite a bit of looping and unsuccessful experimentation with Donnie's mind. Definitely, he needed Donnie to obey him - hence he HAD to make it seem as though he saved him initially. Beyond that, there was more experimentation needed.
Maybe breaking the water main may have ensured that Donnie would meet Gretchen and fall in love with her soon enough, in order to continue a desired timeline. In order not to get Donnie caught by authorities for this action, Frank may have found that burying the axe in the statue and writing in his own handwriting would decrease the suspicion on Donnie.
Donnie needed to be made aware of time travel in order for him to be interested in learning more about it. This would lead him to learn about the POTT book, learn about Roberta Sparrow, and eventually lead to the incident with Gretchen and Frank.
Furthermore, burning down Cunningham's house was necessary to ensure that both parents were out of town, probably culminating in Donnie's ability to drive the car up to the mountain himself with Gretchen's body to see where the time loop starts (seeing the engine fall through the portal) - instead of getting caught by police with two dead bodies and his fingerprints on a gun, hence denying him the opportunity to see the portal swallowing the jet engine.
After seeing HOW the world ends (from the mountain, he sees the engine fall into the portal), Donnie MIGHT figure that if he stays in bed this time, he can stop the loop from occuring again if the FAA have a death on their hands due to some random engine falling from a low altitude into a residential home. Maybe they will then decide to regulate flight altitudes better in the future.
So Donnie's death could be the reason for the termination of an infinite loop. His death would also prevent the death of Gretchen (who wouldn't meet Donnie and get run over by Frank - at least in that particular timeline). Donnie's death would also save the lives of whoever was on the plane, perhaps his sister and mother if they are on it (we see that the cabin depressurizes, so they most likely do die in that timeline). BUT more importantly (or at least to Frank, who orchestrates all of this), Frank gets to stop being a ghost trapped in an infinite loop - he gets to do whatever ghosts do.
Just in case the question is raised about the living Frank honking the horn of his car differently at the end (longer, more pronounced) - this could just be due to the slightly different timeline followed in order to break the infinite loop. The engine could have fallen slightly earlier or slightly later, perhaps due to the presence of Donnie's sister and mother on the plane, perhaps due to another reason. This time the difference would allow the living Frank to see an engine falling down onto the house of his girlfriend. Perhaps when he looked into the mirror this time, the engine was illuminated enough (different altitude) for him to be tipped off about its presence. Hence the desperate honking to get his girlfriend's attention to hopefully get her to come out. Donnie still knew that he had to die.
I think that's a much more interesting take than the Living Receiver fiction, Tangent and Primary universes, manipulated living, manipulated dead, etc. These concepts complicate the movie way too much.
It also makes Donnie's death meaningful (which bugged me greatly with the given explanation by Kelly, like many others). It makes Frank's regret in the theater meaningful (instead of cutting it out in the Director's Cut of the movie). There is probably more that I can't think of at this moment. Most importantly, to me at least, it doesn't make the explanation seem as though it is spoon-fed to us like a story book.
Can this theory work? I'd really like to think it over more if there are flaws in it. Sorry for any obvious errors. Also, sorry if someone thought this up before - please direct me to the posts since I would be very interested in reading about them. It is difficult to find something this specific.