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Post by rschlaf on Apr 12, 2007 14:26:33 GMT -5
when the plane engine kills him in the end, do his mom and sister die also? The engine that the plane came from was the plane that his family was in. I have heard both sides and want to know what you guys think. The arguments that i have heard are a lot better for the mother and sister dieing than living. Any help??? thnx i looked at the plane part again... youtube.com/watch?v=T_QBHnst...related&search=it is the last minute of it. The plane is going almost straight down. There is no way that it survived. Tell me what u think also, they don't die right at the moment the plane engine hits. They die a week later when when the plane really crashes. |
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Post by Bigboy on Apr 12, 2007 15:02:47 GMT -5
Broken link...
But I've seen it enough times to know that we do NOT see the plane fall at all - what you do see is the engine falling into the portal/wormhole.
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Post by FrankxDonnie on Apr 21, 2007 0:34:19 GMT -5
I don't think they died, since the jet engine passed through the portal obviously before the plane fell. But I've heard Richard Kelly himself mentioning Donnie wanting to save "Gretchen and Frank as well as his mother and sister," so maybe they did die? I'm really not sure.
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Post by twinkle on Apr 21, 2007 13:53:06 GMT -5
is it evident anywhere that Donnie does "rip" the engine from the plane carrying his Mom and Sis? as part of the Ensurance Trap it doesn't make sense. (seems he'd be more motivated to use his powers to keep the engine in place and to guide the plane to a safe landing.)
can't it simply be that the engine is going to fall off regardless, and the Ensurance Trap is the fact that Donnie's loved ones are on the plane: he must open the portal for the engine to fall through, to save his Mom and Sis by ending the Tangent Universe in which they are doomed. every one and thing "resets" back to the Primary Universe and events unfold differently (i.e. Rose and Samantha Darko do not get on the same airplane w/the wobbly engine, etc.).
(sorry; seems like i should know this already. watched the DC again last night and didn't get the idea that Donnie is responsible for the engine coming off the plane.)
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Post by Bigboy on Apr 21, 2007 18:55:41 GMT -5
Engines don't just fall off - and we know from the website that the identical counterpart to that plane in the PU was sound and flying safely for many months after the end of Oct 88.
How would he know who was on the plane anyway?
Another way to look at it is this:
If it is all true and he does have powers then that is proof enough that ripping off the engine and sending it back is the only thing to do : his family are saved along with the res of the universe.
If it's all a fantasy he can squint at the plane all he wants and nothing will happen. His family were never in danger (except perhaps from their deranged son/brother).
Given that telekinesis is listed as one of the abilites of the LR, I'd say he has EVERY motivation, given the ensurence trap and PoTT , to tear the plane apart entirely if necessary.
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Post by twinkle on Apr 22, 2007 12:52:36 GMT -5
plane engines just falling off: hasn't this been documented in our own consensus reality? in the film, how does the "first" engine detach?
Donnie could know who was on the plane via the phone message from his mother (delivered while he and Gretchen were making out), detailing when their "red-eye" flight would be arriving in Middlesex airspace.
also, it seems that by this point in the story, Donnie must know all that is going on, whether through further (off-screen) tutelage from Frank or by following his own "time spear" (as alluded to in his conversation w/science teacher).
how else does Donnie "know": to go to Roberta Sparrow's house (aside from "cellar door" clue there is the timing of when to go there); that Frank is deus ex machina/savior, coming to kill Gretchen; to bring the gun w/him to shoot Frank; to go to the exact spot to await plane; that he is "going home". (unless he is experiencing one epiphany after another, arranged like stepping stones, leading to the conclusion; that, and he's always packing heat.)
what is the Ensurance Trap? this too suggests, to me, that the Living Receiver must have some knowledge of what it entails (unless my interpretation of it as a kind of cosmic extortion plot is off).
Donnie's telekinesis could simply be used to shepherd the engine into and through the portal.
please note: all above is based solely on DC version, sans: "original" movie, website, director's commentary.
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Post by Bigboy on Apr 22, 2007 13:06:45 GMT -5
I don't believe the 'first' engine detaches from anywhere... rather that it is an entity in its own right - if you do a search on 'duplication error' or 'copying error' you'll likely find a post by me describing the idea in more detail.
If Donnie does have this level of perception / knowledge (and I believe he probably does), then he'll also KNOW that his actions will save all of existence, and that everything in the TU is transitory and expendable. That his TU family are on the plane would be irrelevent.
The Ensurance trap is the culmination of the actions of the manipulated living and dead forcing Donnie to act. The trap 'springs' when Gretchen is killed and Donnie shoots Frank.
Given that there is nothing at all to suggest that the plane disintegration happens in the PU I am utterly convinced that Donnie romoves it himself. Otherwise it makes the "superhero" seem a bit passive (at least to me).
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Apr 23, 2007 11:58:19 GMT -5
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Post by twinkle on Apr 23, 2007 18:44:57 GMT -5
wow-thanks for the work ProvidencePortal (you earned the paycheck today!).
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Post by MariahMassacre on Jan 7, 2008 12:51:12 GMT -5
That makes me think.
if the engine falls at the time Donnie dies, then they go on the trip later in life wouldn't the engine fall again?
i would think it would repeat for that once.
and so then also where are the other girls on the plane at the time?
they may be in front of her but the scene makes it look like its only the two.
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Post by Bigboy on Jan 8, 2008 13:52:44 GMT -5
Whethor or not they ended up on the plane in the Primary universe doesn't really matter; the phone conversation at the end of the website confirms that the engine does not fall - the engine in question is in useful service years later without significant incident.
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Post by spenc193 on Apr 21, 2008 12:15:36 GMT -5
Does the fate of the mother and the sister in the tangent universe really have any effect on their existence in the primary? I would think not, since the tangent ultimately does not exist in th end. So really, does it matter at all whether they lived or died for the few moments that remained in the tangent universe after the engine failed anyhow?
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Post by Samantha on Aug 27, 2008 3:52:56 GMT -5
no,I don't think that the mother and sister die.
because they would have not been on the plane in the first place if donnie had died. which he does in the end. they were on the plane because the other mothers could not go because they were supportin Jim through his kiddie porn fiasco.
but because donnie actually dies, they would never have found out about the kiddie porn.
everything goes back in time.
and plus at the end you see his mum don't you?
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