Everything leads to Frank getting shot. Why?

[Reed]

Hey all it's been a while...

Anyway, been trying to put everything together (and saw the movie again a couple times recently), and one thing I could never figure out was why all the manipulations, etc. are all leading to Frank getting shot. Well, first him killing Gretchen, THEN getting shot. Donnie knew that when they left the party, Gretchen was going to get kiled, and that he was going to shoot Frank, yet he went anyway, because he knew it had to happen. I never could figure out why.

But then I had a thought. Frank was probably drinking. So was the whole point to prevent him from killing someone drunk, by scaring the shit out of him? Shooting him in the eye to drive the point home.

If so, then it's another in the list of bad things prevented by the time loop.

[kevin]

Frank gets shot because he must become one of the Manipulated Dead. He must become one of the Manipulated Dead so that he can appear to Donnie and rescue him from the plane engine in the beginning of the film. Donnie must be rescued from the plane engine so that he can fulfill his role as Living Receiver and, as such, save the known universe from destruction by the Tangent Universe.

[Reed]

kevin said:

Frank gets shot because he must become one of the Manipulated Dead. He must become one of the Manipulated Dead so that he can appear to Donnie and rescue him from the plane engine in the beginning of the film. Donnie must be rescued from the plane engine so that he can fulfill his role as Living Receiver and, as such, save the known universe from destruction by the Tangent Universe.

Well, yeah... but, you're talking about what it says in the POTT. The POTT was one of the vehicles used to manipulate Donnie into killing Frank. It's not like a textbook or something, it was a book written for one person. Still doesn't answer the question why.

[Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane]

dear Reed,
check under DARKO TIME TRAVEL, the thread "Frank/Donnie Causal Loop Paradox", near the end of Reply #1. seems pretty much agreed that Frank MUST die and nothing to do w/ drunk driving either. (you can find this consensus in many other places)
still doesn't answer why? because the death of Frank releases him from role as Manipulated Living to become a more powerful Manipulated Dead. in this latter capacity he is able to appear to Donnie w/ vital info which he (Frank) may not be privy to as ML: plane engine is falling; and, the world will end in 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds; and, i can make a wormhole and so can you (in the movie theater); etc.
"all the manipulations" lead to Frank getting shot because Frank, as MD, is the character chosen to save the Living Receiver, Donnie, who will save the universe. (perhaps the LR is in every instance threatened by the emergence of the Artifact and so needs to be rescued by another person in the TU).
sorry if this doesn't help; have only seen the DC so it's difficult to imagine NOT knowing the above (also, extensive reading on this site fills in a lot of blanks).

[Bigboy]

you're talking about what it says in the POTT. The POTT was one of the vehicles used to manipulate Donnie into killing Frank. It's not like a textbook or something, it was a book written for one person

But the concept of manipulation is presented by the PoTT in the first place; it seems odd that you would take one part of the book as fundamental and discard the rest.

Frank's death is the culmination of the Ensurance Trap - all the events of the movie lead up to it.
Gretchen's death takes away his closest emotional tie, Frank's death makes him a murderer, and the police are already on the way for the arson and criminal damage, having been tipped off by Dr Thurman.

Donnie is forced to take a chance - his only hope for a way out is the possibilty that Frank and the PoTT are telling the truth, so he positions himself oncarpathian ridge and uses his LR powers to create a portal/wormhole to the PU and then remove the engine and send it through, in order to save the universe.

He has nothing to lose after all, and if he's right then the events of the TU are null and void - he's free.

[Reed]

Twinkle said:

dear Reed,
check under DARKO TIME TRAVEL, the thread "Frank/Donnie Causal Loop Paradox", near the end of Reply #1. seems pretty much agreed that Frank MUST die and nothing to do w/ drunk driving either. (you can find this consensus in many other places)
still doesn't answer why? because the death of Frank releases him from role as Manipulated Living to become a more powerful Manipulated Dead. in this latter capacity he is able to appear to Donnie w/ vital info which he (Frank) may not be privy to as ML: plane engine is falling; and, the world will end in 28 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes, 12 seconds; and, i can make a wormhole and so can you (in the movie theater); etc.
"all the manipulations" lead to Frank getting shot because Frank, as MD, is the character chosen to save the Living Receiver, Donnie, who will save the universe. (perhaps the LR is in every instance threatened by the emergence of the Artifact and so needs to be rescued by another person in the TU).
sorry if this doesn't help; have only seen the DC so it's difficult to imagine NOT knowing the above (also, extensive reading on this site fills in a lot of blanks).

But if all that has to happen is that Donnie needs to die, then there would be no reason for MD Frank to save him in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is that IMO the whole LR/MD relationship exists because he HAS TO kill Frank. Not to CREATE the MD Frank. Shooting frank didn't create MD Frank, it was the other way 'round, meaning that shooting Frank in the eye was an end goal, not the cause. And why him? Why not Gretchen, who was going to die anyway?

POTT says its meant to be direct guide to someone in need of help. And what it says, in essence, is that Frank is going to be killed.

I'm just wondering why? Why him? Just theorizing bout the drunk driving, I dunno.

[Reed]

bigboy said:

Gretchen's death takes away his closest emotional tie, Frank's death makes him a murderer, and the police are already on the way for the arson and criminal damage, having been tipped off by Dr Thurman.

Donnie is forced to take a chance - his only hope for a way out is the possibilty that Frank and the PoTT are telling the truth, so he positions himself oncarpathian ridge and uses his LR powers to create a portal/wormhole to the PU and then remove the engine and send it through, in order to save the universe.

He has nothing to lose after all, and if he's right then the events of the TU are null and void - he's free.

That's a pretty good answer there...

[Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane]

Why not Gretchen, who was going to die anyway?

because the bunny suit did not fit her.

[Bigboy]

Lol - but seriously - could you fall for a girl who kept manifesting as a mangled corpse?

[Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane]

I'm just wondering why? Why him?

maybe for stylistic/artistic reasons:
Frank=mentor, keeper of hidden knowledge
Gretchen=love interest, healer
to spare or leave the Frank character out of the story entirely would have put all the weight on the Gretchen character, which would have definitely increased the tragic freight. Donnie would then have to kill his own girlfriend, who had also been his teacher/mentor.

But if all that has to happen is that Donnie needs to die

do you mean to dissolve the TU and save the PU? Donnie needn't
die to achieve those ends. he dies for other reason(s), open to interpretation and debate.

[Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane]

could you fall for a girl who kept manifesting as a mangled corpse?

good one!

(how long would she stay warm? or you couldn't even touch, right?)

since we seem to be on together BB allow me to express sincere appreciation for the unique depth of your well-thought considerations. yours are among the few contributions to keep this whole thing turning on a certain high level.

[FrankxDonnie]

I think that since Frank is a person in the story who is both living and dead ... past, future, and present ... The fact that he is only all of those things after Donnie killed him, the act of killing him could have been the cause for the portal to appear. So Donnie had to kill him to corrupt the Tangent Universe to the point that a portal can be formed. Sort of a strange theory, but ...

[sinistrebunny69]

I've never imagined Gretchen being the Manipulated Dead. Here using the word "smooshed" again (just for you Omnipotent), seeing Gretchen and her completely car-smooshed tummy (or face if that suits you better) in your hallucinations would be quite unusual. But I think Frank was more appealing in his bunny costume (GOD, I gotta get me one of those). He added to the mysteria and oddity of the whole movie. Who doesn't want to be visited by a 6-foot tall bunny rabbit? I know I do!!!