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Post by Jess on Jan 2, 2004 1:46:09 GMT -5
I just read 6 pages of Donnie Darko explanations, and now I have NO idea what happened in the movie... you think you have it right, and then you run into people with ideas! gah! So anyway.. Were there two universes or not? I can understand the simple time travel theory, I think. Donnie saw his gf die, and he killed Frank, and he knew that he could go back in time and change it? That seems nice and simple. But then you have to throw in crap like "the world ending"... does Donnie have any clue that there are two universes? (assuming that there are) Also, if the sky opened up, how would that leave only Donnie and Frank? What gives them special exemption? This movie is mind-blowing. I wish it had a simple answer...
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Post by penz on Jan 5, 2004 21:33:26 GMT -5
I´d like to comment on a prety old post by I think it was darkmystic to chris t; "Chris T, The reason for this is that Roberta was forced initially back in order to send back the artifact. Just as Donnie was. However, just as Donnie knew the engine was coming and was given the choice to die, as he knew was his path, so Roberta was also given this choice. Roberta, however, did not follow it. She chose not to follow the path, and thus she died alone. " If she should die alone then there can´t be no god because god loves all his children, doesnt he? and if there´s no god then no one has a predestined path and then the whole movie is like a pretty fucked up kid hallucinating... And I also think that RK is a freaking genius cause you can watch this movie and really trie to understand it but if you do that I don´t think you should focus so much on like what the movie is about but you should just continue off- topic and at least you´ll have an interesting discussion or even an enlightment. You can use the movie as a trampoline to get up to a new intellectual level . but if you over-analyse the movie itself I think you´ll just ruin cause it is in the end just a movie...(I´ll probably get lynched for saying this in here) What truly makes him a genius is that you can just watch it and laugh (and have that "thinking"-undertone), cause it is a really funny movie, ie the whole jim cunningham thing is brilliant and thé humor makes it accesable, thats all for me, you´ve been great thank you very much
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Post by Mr Angry on Jan 6, 2004 16:39:00 GMT -5
Just thinking about the world ending, does it? is it just the end for Donnie, or is it another way of the tangeant universe getting Donnie to go back to be killed by the plane. Does he go back to save the universe, or to save is mum and sister, who otherwise are on the plane, which loses its wing?
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Post by NYB on Jan 6, 2004 18:24:59 GMT -5
It's been a while since I have watched the movie but something I haven't seen mentioned is that by Donnie's chosing to die he saves all the people he loves.
He saves Gretchen because they never meet... never end up at the party.
He saves his mom and maybe his little sister because by his dying, he never burns down Patrick Swayze's house... which means that Kittie Farmer doesn't have to stay behind for the trial and can take the dance troup herself.
Just a thought.
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Post by Just another fan on Jan 6, 2004 21:53:00 GMT -5
Richard Kelly explains it all. Donnie never went back in time to begin with. The movie, in fact, is based in 88. As soon as he meets Frank, the 4th dimension is activated and the Tangent Universe opens. In Roberta Sparrows book, she speaks of how this Universe would collapse upon itself unless and artifact (of which had traveled into the past) were returned to the universe it came from. Donnie is 'the chosen one' to bring the engine back to the past. Everything Frank tells Donnie to due led up eventually to the plane flying into the tornado. Think about it. He floods the school. Already he's changed something. Every kid in that school is manipulated. He torches Jim Cunningham's house. (noted after reading 'The Philosophy of Time Travel', that usually 'the one is granted with superhuman abilities and the power to control the elements of FIRE and WATER.) Thus, Cunnigham's 'dungeon is discovered. Some wouldn't understand how this has anything to do with the plane, but it does. The health teacher/dance coach has to stay home now, to go defend Jim. So that leaves both of Donnie parents gone (Eddy was on a business trip). With them gone, Donnie is very well free to leave his house, and eventually take him to Grandma Death's cellar door. Without him torching Jim's house, none of this would happen. There, Gretchen and Frank die. Once more, none of this would have happened. Richard Kelly explains (in the DVD commentary) that Frank is some sort of messenger, there for only guidance. So eventually, Donnie causes everything to fall in place perfectly; his mother and sister are in the plane that looses an engine, just before the Tangent Universe were to collapse. The perfect place at the perfect time. I don't know if anyone else noticed, but Frank was Donnie's sister's boyfriend. (the red car). Moments before his sister comes home on the 2nd (she's being dropped off by Frank) you hear beeping. It is said (once more by Kelly) that this is a warning to Donnie, to get out of bed. He did it. No sense in dying. Never in the film did he KNOW he was death-bound. He didn't have to die. He just realised his Tangent Universe is more beautiful than anything he'd ever experienced. Such a mixture of emmotions is the essence of human life. So, I suppose he dies happy. (look at that smile).
More clarity. The man in the red suit is not Donnie. That fat *** is one of the FAA agents simply looking after Donnie. It's kind of sad no one ever noticed... The engine came from no where, and landed in an empty room. His room. It would be foolish not to keep an eye on Donnie. (this is also revealed in the DVD, by Richard Kelly.)
And more. Donnie can see Frank because he is a "Manipulated Dead". (also in Roberta Sparrows book.) It is said, in sleep, the Primary can see anyone whom died in the Tangent universe. He never really explained why he never saw Gretchen (also a victim of the universe), and simply assumed he was so close to her it was unnecessary. (she could 'guide' him in everyday life. Plus, she doesn't have an awesome bunny suit.)
I hope this peices some stuff together. If there are anymore follow up questions, I'll gladly answer. Anything I don't know off my head, I can always look back and check.
P.S. Get the dvd. Deleted scenes help, too. Commentary answers EVERYTHING. Some of you may notice Richard Kelly doesn't exactly have all the answers, because he left most of them to interpretation. The movie is not about finding God. The movie is based on divine beings in general. He never saws Frank is a messenger of God. Then again, he never says he isn't. ; )
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Post by Chris T on Jan 7, 2004 10:36:05 GMT -5
Penz,
Yeah I never really considered dying alone literally and it was just a metaphor for the existence of God.
Fan, ] Good post, but honestly you didn't say anything i haven't thought of myself or seen on this site.
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Post by Atreyu on Jan 8, 2004 18:59:31 GMT -5
OK -- I have read all the comments and came up with this:
The Tangent Universe opened because the artifact (engine) fell from seemingly nowhere-- THIS created the tangent universe that left unclosed, would destroy all existence. Donnie being lured out of bed by Frank did NOT cause the tangent universe, but was instead a way of closing the Tangent universe by allowing a timeline to exist in which the engine came from a real plane.
Frank manipulated Donnie into creating this timeline (by instructing Donnie to do this and that). Frank's motivation was to save the known universe. Donnie was chosen because he had the ability to manipulate time--because the tangent universe must be directed into temporal loop, in order to close it.
So Donnie was manipulated by Frank into created the time line in which the plane was over his house when the engine failed. I believe all the actions Donnie did (flooding the school, burning the house, etc.) where necessary to lead up to the plane being in that exact position when the engine fell--thus is came from a real plane in a real time-line.
That having been done, it was necessary for Donnie to time-travel back into the position where he would be killed by the engine in order to close the tangent universe and save all existence.
Frank did not cause the tangent universe, but he existed in it (as the rabbit) to assist in closing it.
Now the engine came from somewhere (a parallel time-line from a CLOSED tangent universe)... all existence is saved.
Mystic -- your idea about the red jumsuit guy is neat, but doesn't work for me.... if Donnie travelled back from present day -- why would his OLD self be in a red jumpsuit just hanging around? I think the timeframe of the movie (1988) was chosen because it is an interesting time to set a movie (e.g. The Wedding Singer, and other movies using the same setting)--and gave the creators of the movies (who mostly gre up in the 80s) some nice reminiscense.
Just my opinion......
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Post by adominator on Jan 11, 2004 7:00:49 GMT -5
since there is so much to read and really i dont have the time. the only thingf that i feel that you are wrong is that the reds jump suit guy isn't donnie from any time preiod. he;s actually the FAA agent you saw when the darko parents had to sign those documents. look closely at the smaller fat guy if you get the chance. he's dressed like that to keep an eye on our donnie. so he dont tell anyone what he does really know.
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Post by Zach on Jan 11, 2004 20:49:04 GMT -5
Ok, I'm confused on some points.. #1 Why was the tangent universe created?? I understand HOW it was created ( the jet engine ), but I don't understand why. #2 Just want to clarify how the tangent universe was closed at the end. Here's what I have gathered, tell me if it's right: All the events leading up to the closing ( flooding, burning of house, etc. ) were needed in order to place the plane at that exact moment into the wormhole surrounding DD's home. This wormhole linked the tangent universe ( October 28, 1988 ) to the real universe ( October 2, 1988 ), thusly placing the plane there when the jet engine kills Donnie, closing the tangent universe. 3# Why did Donnie have to die? If my above statements were true, the tangent universe was created by the engine falling out of nowhere. If so, wouldn't DD's little journey to place the plane in the wormhole so that the jet engine came from somewhere, wouldn't that close the tangent universe in itself? I'm confused why DD had to die. Thanks for the help
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Post by robzb on Jan 12, 2004 13:45:01 GMT -5
I am still confused how Donnie's actions cause the plane's engine to fall off or be in the right place to fall off to close up the tangent universe. Anyone? Anyone?
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Post by Impossible on Jan 13, 2004 12:11:02 GMT -5
John A here, posted a few weeks back just cant be bothered logging in. Still love the film but have decided to stop analysing every detail as i dont think there is a real answer because in the end its just not based on the laws of science. See the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. The engine at the end cant come back through because, well it comes from nothing. So if this discrepancy can be excepted then almost any other interpretation can be included. One other thing, Donnie doesnt choose to die at any stage, he is buggered regardless. He either gets squashed by the engine or dies when the world ends. Argh!! I dont care any more!
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Post by Chris T on Jan 15, 2004 2:41:58 GMT -5
Wrong. Donnie doesn't choose to do anything, as is explained a couple times in Richard Kelleys own indirect way. And there is no way the world can come to an end. Think about it.. if the only way the portal can be closed is through Donnie, and God wants the portal to close, Donnie must travel along his path. This happens to everyone all the time, but Donnie is a special case because he is given a "choice". This choice is really the underlying theme and is probably the point we should all come away with. In a scene with his science teacher, Donnie asks if you could see your path, it would be like time travel. Monatoff says if you could see it then it would not exist (because of science). BUT, Donnie speculates that through God, there is a way that you can have both predestination and free will. This is where the science teacher stopped because he would no longer be talking science he would be teaching philosophy (certainly not in his job description). So at the end of the movie, Donnie is happy because he knows that there is a God.
*but think about this* -- Option 2
..When Donnie sees the future events over the next 28 days, he is seeing his path. But really God showed him his future in a seperate universe and it was a necessity for him to choose death. but if this were ultimately His destiny, (think back to the first line of this post) because God says so... then really he isnt seeing his path. His "path" is nothing more than a divinly inspired hallucination. In this case God isnt giving Donnie a choice. He shows Donnie why it is so critical for Mans destiny to be contolled by God. He is letting Donnie know God exists and Donnie probably wouldnt want free will on his own... and of course the biggest reason for the tangent universe...to let him know he is not alone.
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Post by greedy on Jan 15, 2004 10:55:39 GMT -5
Chris T turned me onto the darko movie but i disagree with the god predestination thing i belive donnie had free wil lived one path didn't like and wanted to change it but forgot about the big fucking engine that was gonna crush him to think god showed donn'i an alternate path so he whould choose death is to say frank is god ....... and he's not
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Post by jadedbrokenlife2 on Jan 15, 2004 23:36:30 GMT -5
Okay. Kelly says in the comentary that the guy in the red jump suit works for the FAA. It's not Donnie from the future. There are still things that I'm shadey about understand, but I do understand this: In order for Donnie to go back into the past, he has to follow the path. (like the little orby things coming out his chest) He has to listen to what Frank tells him, like flooding the school and burning Jim's house down because it sets up for everything to fall into place so he can go back in time. Remember how Donnie says this: "I'm really glad that school got flooded, because we never would have had this converstation." ? This is saying that he knows that he was MENT to meet Gretchen. She's part of the puzzle. She has to get run over in order for Donnie to shoot Frank. As for Grandma Death and her roll...she walks back and forth from the mail box and her house because it's her job to be there in the middle of the road when Frank comes driving by so he swerves to miss her and ends up hitting Gretchen, so then again, things fall in place. Donnie uses his "superpowers" to make the portal come and pull the engine off, sending it back in time to hit him in his room. However, it's not Frank's intention to kill Donnie. At the end when he beeps, he's trying to tell Donnie to wake up, that they did it. (This is also said by Kelly.) Of course, Donnie doesn't hear it, and is then killed by the engine. How the whole tanget world was created though, I'm still trying to figure out.
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Post by greedy on Jan 16, 2004 11:24:20 GMT -5
jade go back to the drawing board blow it up sit down with cheetos and watch happy gilmore donnie is tio far above you right now donnie from the future i don't thinks so he's a fat guy in a suit give it up he didn't KNOW he was sapossed to flood the school to meet grechin he chalked it up to fate com on
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