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Post by sphynx on Mar 25, 2006 20:22:48 GMT -5
I have been looking into this movie alot the past couple days, but I cannot get past the orgin of Frank. It seams like a paradox to me.
Franks actions result in his death, so how did he become the MD in the first place? We see the scar in his eye, meaning his death from Donnie was in fact the reason he became the MD. In other words, he would not have died if he did not direct Donnie, so why how did he become the MD in the first place? If not for Frank MD, there would be no Frank MD. The order does not work.
Can anyone explain this to me? I read BigBoys post, applying math to his explanation, but I still cant understand how it happened in the first place. I NEED HELP! Its driving me crazy, and i need to find an explanation for this, Frank is a HUGE part of the movie. It has to work somehow!
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Post by Bigboy on Mar 26, 2006 11:06:03 GMT -5
My post was trying to show that even though what we see seems circular, it's possible that in one of the "Transitional" histories of the TU Frank dies in a different way:
The simplest scenario (but not the only one) is that Donnie dies in the engine crash, and later Frank dies - maybe drunk driving on his beer run. Once dead he becomes MD. As MD he can traverse time at will (saving donnie) - and is essentially independant of time. In this state he can manipulate and shape the TU history as he sees fit; even changing HOW he dies (in the final, stable history we see) in order manipulte Donnie in the Ensurance Trap.
It's not the only way it could happen, and we can't know the 'exact' way, which is why I tried to show it in a general "proof" (probably not the right word!).
I don't know if that helps at all...
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Post by sphynx on Mar 26, 2006 18:50:34 GMT -5
thank you. That helps me out alot. That explanation seems 100% logical to me, and still works with the entire TU/time travel book stuff. I have been trying to come up with something like that for a couple days now. It seams so simply and logical, now I cant understand why I couldnt think of that in the first place?  |
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Mar 27, 2006 12:10:35 GMT -5
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Post by sphynx on Mar 29, 2006 2:08:15 GMT -5
The simplest scenario (but not the only one) is that Donnie dies in the engine crash, and later Frank dies - maybe drunk driving on his beer run. Crap... Bigboy, when I read you post I was so enthuised to find an answer I didnt even realize it contradicted the very thing I just typed!!! Frank has the scar on his eye (at the theater), implying he died from the gunshot from Donnie. I though I had it all figured out for a little bit. I just cant let this movie go! Any theory that supports Franks eye too??? I suppose it could have been some final fantasy shit in the car crash and a rod was sent through his eye.... but im pertty sure that the intent of Kelly showing us Franks eye was for us to make the connection to the gunshot. I wont sleep right untill I get this straightened out, such a great movie can't have a flaw like this... right? |
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Post by Bigboy on Mar 29, 2006 7:37:19 GMT -5
I think it's fair to assume that Frank will manifest in the form most relevant/recent to the 'history' he is in. In this case with his eye shot out. How he dies in one of the transitional histories that allows the Frank-Donnie circle to establish itself (the wiggle in the graph), isnt the way he dies in the final stable history (the straight part of the graph). In the final 4-dimensional reality Donnie shoots Frank and Frank saves Donnie. Which seems impossible. The maths in the other post was supposed to show that this final reality caused by the timelessness of the MD is not necessarily the same as the 'original' reality of the TU; that there has been some higher dimensional transition. So you're right; Frank's eye is mush because Donnie shot it out, but it doesn't mean he couldn't die in a different way in some transitional history. I also mentioned that the scenario I outlined was not the only one - there are as many as you can imagine. The only thing needed to maintain the feedback loop is that SOMEONE dies and becomes MD. It needn't be Frank until the final TU history is established. I have a feeling I could make this seem less complicated...  ...but it IS complicated  |
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Post by sphynx on Mar 29, 2006 22:33:52 GMT -5
ic,
I would rather have something more "cut and dry", but that works.
That theory seams too complicated for a movie. Its alot to think about for the movie to make sense. Then again, this isnt your average movie...
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Post by wilburthinkshard on Sept 2, 2008 1:43:48 GMT -5
Anyone notice in the opening scene when Donnie is riding down the street, Franks car drives by?
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Post by Phil on Sept 8, 2008 13:22:13 GMT -5
yeah, we all know that
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