Something I don't understand (Spoilers)

[Shub]

Hello,

I love this movie, I've read a lot of things this last days and look at the Richard Kerry's commentaries on the DVD...and there's still something that I don't understand.

Can you help me ?

First I'd like to explain you what I've understood, then you will see my question.

There is a primary universe (the normal one, the one which exists at the start of the film).
Sometimes, it's very rare, a failure of time/space can happen. You can see there was a failure because it remains an artefact. This artefact must be made of metal cause that's the only thing that can travel into time/space (through a wormhole i.e. a vortex made of water).

In Donnie Darko, the jet engine is the artefact resulting of a time/space failure. Because this jet engine comes from the future, it's an "impossible thing" in the primary universe (this cannot exist), time and space react to this impossibility and create a "tangeant universe".

This tangeant universe can't exist for a long time and will colapse soon.

In this tangeant universe things are differents, and people too.

1. It exists a "living receiver". This guy got "supernatural powers" (said in sparrow's book and said by Richard Kelly). He's help by all the people around him (friends, familly...)
2. It exists "manipulated deads". These people got more powers than the "living receiver". These people are those who will die during the tangeant universe and are here to make the "living receiver" accomplish his task (saving the world).
3. All others are "manipulated livings". These people don't know what happen but will help the "living receiver" (even if they don't really know that they are doing this). When the primary universe will get its place, it may be possible that these people will have a brief memory of what happened in this tangeant universe.

According to what Richard Kelly and Sparrow are saying, the main goal of the "living receiver" is to put the artefact back in the primary universe.

Are you all ok with this? Because if you are, there's something that I don't understand...

Question:

Why does "Manipulmated Dead Frank" need Donnie to put the jet engine in the wormhole? I mean, we've seen
the jet engine felt on Donnie's roof at the start of the film, so it's the "destiny" of this jet engine to
fall in a wormhole and go back in the past, the jet engine doesn't not need the help of Donnie to fall this
way.
I really don't understand MD Frank's motivation.

For me, acting like this wouldn't resolve anything. Because if the jet engine falls again in the wormhole and is sent again in the past, lands again on Donnie's roof, the artefact will exist AGAIN in the primary universe, this "impossible piece of metal" for this primary universe, and so once again it creates
a new failure of time/space, and then again a tangeant universe (but this time without Donnie, cause he's dead!).

Eventually Donnie's goal would have been to avoid the jet engine falling on his roof, cause like this the
artefact would had never been exists at all and the tangeant universe too...but that's not what Kelly and
Sparrow say, they just say : "he's goal is to put the artefact back in the primary universe"...so I don't
understand.

Help me please, I need to resolve this key :S

[IIVII]

OK shub, I'll do my best here. Theres a few ways you can look at this. You can think "well maybe donnie needed to send the engine back to kill himself so all these people don't have to suffer anymore". Which could be a valid assumption. I mean, throughout the whole movie franks manipulating donnie to put the wrong things right. Maybe Frank thinks that if Donnie doesn't die certain things will repeat themselves (which i have a hard time understanding). My personal oppinion on the matter is this: Frank doesn't need the artifact in the primary universe, he already got what he wanted. Donnie should now know the steps to follow in his own world so he doesnt make the same mistakes he made in the Tangent. I belive bringing the artifact into his own universe is solely Donnies choice. Donnie no longer fears death, in fact; he welcomes it. That explains why he has that crazy laughter in the end. because now he can "breathe a sigh of relief". At least, that's what I like to think.

[my thoughts]

Well, if you are going to say that then i think i would back that up.... it says in his letter that "he will breathe a sigh of relief when the world ends"

now this doesnt have to mean everyones world does it???

It could simply mean that donnie knew what was already going to happen before he wrote the letter and his crazy laughter / sigh of relief is what happens at the end......

hmm just my thoughts ....

[Marc]

I still don't understand.

How does Donnies death 'save the world'?
I realise that the events that occur in the tangent universe allow Donnie to see what would have happened if he didn't die. But the things that he learns from Frank only lead him to the conclusion that the chain of events would work out better if he had died.
So why did Frank lead him out of his house in the first place? Because surely if he hadn't, Donnie would have died and the outcome of the story would have been the same...?

I'm confused...

[try this]

i'm thinking just simply in a simple version the reason for donnies death is because he ran out of time, and time ran out as soon as donnie shot frank in the eye. Remember donnie and everyone left the party because he said time was running out and after he killed frank , he went to the cliff and watched the sky, just as the movie opened up to in the beginning and towards the end, he said that we wished it all came to him in a dream, the tagent universe ended and the world did end, through donnie's eyes that is, donnie's world ended, and he sighed a sigh of releif because he knew himself that world through his eyes was over, but thats just one of the million possibilities i thought of.

[flamingo]

Donnie saves the world...his world...the people he loved the most....gretchen.....his mom....his sister...et cetra et cetra....so therefore, donnie saves the world

[reignman]

POTT says that the primary universe-tangent universe wormhole has the potential to destroy the universe if it is not eliminated. When Donnie is killed by the jet engine, the wormhole doesn't exist anymore, because it was created when Donnie killed Frank in the primary universe, and when Donnie dies in the primary universe, the wormhole wouldn't exist, because the reason it existed was to allow the tangent universe to happen, which was shown to Donnie through a dream. When Donnie dies, he won't need to see the tangent universe again, and Gretchen and Frank don't die.

[cft]

but remeber, donnie wanted 2 die couse hes sick of everything!

[Butter]

SHit. I came to this webpage looking for answers and i got a whole bunch of questions. I haven't seen the Richard Kerry's commentaries so what shub has said is all very new to me. No one has the answers and anyone who claims to have them is an idiot who has completely missed the point! A lot of decent commentary on this page though.

I wouldnt say donnie's laugh was "crazed" it seems happy, like he is laughing at the irony of the situation, and has finally come to some resolve. As for everything else i think im just as confused as shub and marc are.

[TopKatz]

Let me see if I can help confuse everyone some more

The whole movie happens in a split second. The engine that crashes into the house at the beginning of the movie is a random artifact entering into the primary universe. There is no given reason for this artifact to appear at this point of the movie. This is a key fact, there is NO TIME LINE WERE THIS ENGINE EXISTS at the beginning of the movie. It has no reason to be there.

The Engine is going to fall on Donnie right then, so he is chosen as the "Living Receiver". Now the movie shifts to the tangent universe, created because of the artifact. This universe is created to get Donnie to send the artifact back. Now Frank (Manipulated Dead Frank!) goes to work, getting Donnie out of bed, and setting the "trap" to get him to hook up with Gretchen, learn about Sparrow, the Cellar Door, and put his family in LA, and on the plane. Remember even the living in this Tangent universe are there to push Donnie to his goal.

When the real live Frank in the tangent universe kills Gretchen, Donnie has to kill him. If he does not, then Frank cant come back as Manipulated Dead. Frank needs to be killed to be able to come back and help Donnie. Donnie understands this, and does what he is supposed to.

Donnie knows there is going to be a worm hole. He knows that at the end of the 28 days that above his house the worm hole will appear before the world comes to an end. The book clearly states this. So he goes up on the hill, and uses his telekinetic powers to rip the engine from the plane, and send it through the worm hole. This act creates a valid time line for the engine to exist in the world. He created it in the tangent universe. So now there is a reason for it to crash through the house (valid in the guidelines of the movies universe!). This saves the universe, and Donnie Darko is a supper hero!

The debate for me is whether Donnie had to die. I think he could have lived, but chose not to. Or that he did not even believe what he dreamt that night.

[bmw325i]

Just a quick and very "bottom line" explanation/synopsis of the overall explanation... in my opinion...

Donnie was always supposed to die by the engine landing on him but was dragged away by the 'Manifested Dead' Frank in order to give his death meaning and sacrifice... to give him a reason to sacrifice himself in order for the bad things that would take place not to happen. The countdown is for "his world" to end and was there looking at "HIS" point of view. I also think that the "wave" and slight recollection at the end is only a slight form of deja vous that was caused after the timelines repair.

[Abi]

I think the whole reason Frank manipulated Donnie into doing all the things he did in the tangent universe was so Donnie in the primary universe would no longer be afraid to die and would know he's not alone. He know his mother loves him (how does it feel to have a wacko for a son? it feels wonderful), he knows Gretchen loved him (in the tangent universe-so would love him in the primary universe if he didn't die) and that some higher force (God or whatever you want to call it) cared about him. In his letter to RS Donnie says 'I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to.' He 'remembers' the events of the tangent universe as a dream and so knows he isn't alone and is not afraid to die to save the people he loves (Gretchen, his mother, his sister). This is only my opinion though, you might think it's absolute rubbish!

[Aveago]

I personally think that the ending is very easily understood and due to the great detail that Richard Kerry directed he cause those who saw the movie to over analyze it and try to make it complicated.

My final conclustion. Throughout the movie Frank was showing Donnie of all the things he could do. He was in essence the evil presence. He knew that Donnie was very impressionable and walked in his sleep. Throughout this entire process Donnie learned to trust in the predetermined path set out for each of us and that he could choose do to right or wrong. After he fell in love and she died, he realized what was most important. He also realized the power Frank had when Frank was dead and Donnie learned that Frank need to live and that those he cared about would be safe if Donnie stayed in bed and accepted his future. By so doing Frank lived and did not have the power to influence for evil and Donnie no longer caused worry to his family and his true love would live.