Help with Sparrow?

[sphynx]

I am constantly thinking there must be more to Sparrow than just writing the book for Donnie to find.

Why does she wait for Donnies letter? Dosent donnie find out everything he needs to know from her time travel book?

-why does Donnie go to the cellar?
-why are the kids there robbing Sparrow?
-why is ML Frank driving there when he hits Gretchen?
-why does Donnie see and follow his future when he takes the gun? why would he take the gun?

As for the last 4 points, I understand they could just be and elaborate plan to get Gretchen killed for the insurance trap. I am just not sure how they are all connected. I was also wondering if there was more of a reason for the way it all happened?

[Bigboy]

The thing to understand is that everyone is being manipulated on some level by an outside force - hence 'the Manipulated Living.'

All of this manipulation is ultimately to guide Donnie on his way, so...

-why does Donnie go to the cellar?
Sparrow wrote PoTT, he know she knows all about his situation; After his experience at the party he wants answers and she's the one who has them.
"Cellar Door" is a subliminal clue too - Pomeroy wrote it thinking as an English Lit teacher, but she was in fact manipulated to do so to plant the idea in Donnie's mind.

-why are the kids there robbing Sparrow?
It is mentioned earlier in the movie that there is an urban legend that she has a valuable gem collection she keeps there, and kids try to find them all the time. THat they were there this particular night - again is a subtle outside manipulation.

-why is ML Frank driving there when he hits Gretchen?
From his note at the party we know he's on a beer run. Why his route goes past Sparrow's house: say it with me! : outside manipulation.

-why does Donnie see and follow his future when he takes the gun? why would he take the gun?
The book has led him to believe that the spear shows him where he WILL go, so he doesn't question it and follows. His conversation on fate and God's path with Monnitoff instill in him the idea that where he is led is fated and for a reason: he's led to the gun, so he takes it.

Everything in the movie is a layer of manipulation in order to close the ensurance trap (as you say) and force Donnie to use his powers to save the universe.

[sphynx]

OK, I think I just need to understand the ML and MD a little better.

"everyone is being manipulated on some level by an outside force"
-Do you mean something like a higher power, God?




The way I see it, only the MD Frank knows entirely what is going on. The other ML are only perhaps guided by a higher power. I wonder why in the notes of the PoTT Gretchen is listed as MD, but in the movie we dont see her as a MD like Frank is? I guess when you think about it, it wouldnt reallly work with the story.


What you said about Frank's drunk driving death in another timeline made me think of something... In the TU, when Donnie "dies" by the engine... in that timeline maybe Gretchen is killed with her mother by her dad? That would explain how she became the MD, and there is evidence to support it. Plus, Frank (ML) finds the perfect way to reconstruct his and Gretchens death. All of that works well for me.

[sphynx]

After writing that post, I am really starting to believe that this was all influenced by God. That idea also takes into account for Donnie laughing at the end and the "dying alone" theme. He found what he was looking for in the TU.

But that kind-of contradicts another believe of mine... I think that when Donnie wakes up he just was dreaming about his life in the TU. Just like everyone else. He though it was a dream and that was the reason he did not get out of bed to save himself.

To clarify that, I am thinking he found proof to believe in God via his dream of the TU, but he did not believe his dream of the TU because he did not get our of bed. I guess this will still require a little more thought.

[Bigboy]

Could be God, gould be the "Future Scientists" using some unknown tech to to the manipulating. Thats up to the individual!

I think Gretchen is MD simply because she dies at all (the way we see it). THat's not to say it cant happen as you say in some transitional reality.
It's also important to realise that the MD exist simultaneously with thier Living selves (we see both Franks) - so there is an MD Gretch , but we just don't see her, after all Donnie meeting his girlfriend's corpse would likely freak him out!

Just like everyone else. He though it was a dream and that was the reason he did not get out of bed to save himself.

I agree entirely with that!

[sphynx]

bigboy said:

I think Gretchen is MD simply because she dies at all (the way we see it).... so there is an MD Gretch , but we just don't see her, after all Donnie meeting his girlfriend's corpse would likely freak him out!

Thats what I was thinking too.

[godlysparrow]

This link may help: www.freewebs.com/markdarko/donniedarkosaviour.htm

I like this idea, that Donnie Darko wanted to die so that he could save his family, and he decided to time travel to do so. He died for the ones he loved to disprove what Roberta Sparrow said; "Every living thing on Earth Dies alone.". She only said it so as to push him to realize we can die with the ones we love in our hearts and us in their hearts, and thus, we have the ability to never die alone. Like a Messiah, like Christ, he dies to save the world.