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Post by Bigboy on Feb 19, 2005 13:55:19 GMT -5
Well you CAN - think of a tangent universe as a blob/cyst/cancer on one of the branches, and that particular branch as the primary universe. Since no time passes in the primary universe while events in the TU play out no new branches are created in the PU (or maybe that should be PM - 'Primary Multiverse')
What I was trying to get accross was that there is no single 'correct' branch, and that a brached universe was not equivalent to a tangent universe.
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Post by Madridarko on Feb 19, 2005 21:15:18 GMT -5
What I was trying to get accross was that there is no single 'correct' branch, and that a brached universe was not equivalent to a tangent universe. I get you, but I was refferering to the "original timeline" as the timeline you remember occuring or which path you think you lived on: based on the certain events that occured during you're life or events studied from your history. So basically the "original timeline" would differs depending of whose points of view we are reffering to, which depends from which universe that person originate from. For some reason while thinking about the multiuniverse concept, the idea of Scruoodingers? cat experiment theory thing keeps on nagging. If I am not mistaken, he stated that a cat in a cat that is given poisson, will be in a state where it is both dead and alive untill the box is opened and discovered if the cat did die. I think that this was his way of kinda describing the duality function of certain particles right? For example light particles, in which when unobserved it takes properties of both particle and wave, untill observed it will take a property of one or the other depending on what format it is being observed. BigBoy do you think there is a way in which this theory of Quantum Physics could be applied to this MultiUniverse theory?
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Post by Bigboy on Feb 19, 2005 22:47:58 GMT -5
You're talking about Schroedinger's Cat - It describes quantum superposition. Basically you are right - there is a cat in a box and deadly poison will be administered upon the decay of a radioactive particle. Because radioactive decay is an effectively random process you can't know whether it is alive or not. Until it is observed the cat is neither alive nor dead (or it's both at the same time). In reality such quantum oddities dont work on such large scales. As far as I know wave/partical duality is always in affect - a partical always has these properties (on very small scales). But propertes such as Spin and even Position can be in a state of superposition.
The resolution of a superposition of possible states of a particle is basically a probabilstic event, and may play a part in intelligence and choice on some level; so yes I do think the ideas of quantum superposition and multiple branching universes can fit together.
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Post by Madridarko on Feb 20, 2005 11:48:03 GMT -5
Ok, so the quantum superposition does in fact take place place with the cat? or is it just a theory that in which a cat is used as an example. Or is it just an anology to represent some other particle duality system? Also isn't Schroedinger the same person that stated that it was impossible to find both an electron's position and momentom at the same time? I there was also an equation dealing with that, but I can't remember it at this given moment.
"When you look at the plate, one of two things happen, depending on what school of Quantum Physics you belong to. There is the Copenhagen Interpretation (so named because that was Einstein's brand of chewing tobacco), which states that when you look at the plate, the wave form will "collapse" and the probability of the photon hitting section A will "jump" to one, while the probability of the photon hitting section B goes to zero. There is also the Many Worlds Interpretation. Here, when you look at the plate, the universe splits into two parallel universes, one where the photon hits A and one where it hits B. The Many Worlds Interpretation is the basis for the popular television show "Melrose Place" (or is it 90210?)."
I think this is what I understood as a wave duality or something like that.
Also going off on a tangent a bit if you don't mind briefly explaining that I think it's called "chaos theory" I have read several articles and reading material that include it and I researched a bit on it but don't seem to understand it completly. I know that it deals with energy and matter complexity and how it only goes in one direction. (something along the lines) Please and thank you very much.
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Post by Bigboy on Feb 20, 2005 12:50:49 GMT -5
It's a thought experiment expressing a complex idea in tangible terms. A cat is too large and complex to be in a state of quantum superposition. The largest things (as far as I know) to be shown to be in sucha a state are light atoms. So yes analogy is probably the best description for it.
That is Heisenburg's Uncertainty Principle. Basically states that the more accurately you measure the position of a particle, the more you necessarily affect it's momentum, and vice versa. I dont know the equations associated with this, but it is an inversly proportional relationship.
This is a nice explenation of the resolution of superposition. Wave partical duality is a principle stating that all particals have wavelike properties and all waves have partical like properties. For instance you can diffract a beam of subatomic particals in the same way you can light. The Idea is related to mass energy equivalence.
re Chaos theory : I know of the principle - that simple rules can resut in wildly erratic systems, but I don't know the maths behind it! It is related to entropy (the order of a system) which tends to increase with time. Your best bet is to google if you want to know more.
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Post by Madridarko on Feb 20, 2005 12:54:38 GMT -5
OK then, thank you Bigboy.
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Post by gretchen on Feb 20, 2005 22:01:01 GMT -5
what?! zombie cats?! just joshin' ya.
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Post by guest on Mar 27, 2006 22:09:17 GMT -5
So lemme get this straight, there are multiple universes as we speak. after every choice I make, a new universe is created
can you travwel between these universes? would that be the 6th dimension?
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Post by Bigboy on Mar 28, 2006 7:49:46 GMT -5
That's the idea, though it IS only an idea - nobody has any real proof...
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Post by greedy on Mar 31, 2006 18:29:35 GMT -5
theres a book i might have mentioned befor i got a copy and i am reading it the dancing wu li masters it's physics with out the math it may clear this up a bit
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Post by huh on Jun 5, 2006 1:19:08 GMT -5
Wouldn't the only way to create tangent universes be by having an artifact come into the primary universe? That would create a paradox that would have to be solved before the primary universe could continue on its course. So the engine that travels back creates the paradox of having two engines in one universe. The only way to continue is for one engine to no longer exist. A tangent universe splits off at that moment so, hopefully either the paradox is solved or the universe is destroyed. The only way for the engine to travel back is by a portal. Portals happen randomly and if you had the knowlege and the vessel you could go looking for them. Maybe they occur very rarely and one happened to open when the jet plane lost its engine. So lets say that in the Primary Universe Donnie is able to figure enough out about time travel to accidentally send this jet engine back in time. Once he does that he creates a paradox which his past self must fix. This is how you could get the loop effect. Donnie continues to try new things to stop himself from sending the engine back. So who knows how many times he tries to do this, as long as he sends it back to the same place he can keep trying. Eventually he gains enough knowledge that for the Primary Universe to continue he must die so he can't send it back and hurt everyone. So when Donnie is dead he can't accidentally (or on purpose) send the engine back. So when the engine does break off and there is no Donnie it enters the portal at random and ends up who knows where, maybe without direction it never leaves the portal, just floats around. That way all that happens is the engine is lost forever. The primary universe can then continue with just an engine missing. This is just my random musings after stumbling on this page and reading and being really tired so please enjoy.
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Post by Bigboy on Jun 5, 2006 7:47:44 GMT -5
A couple of problems with your theory: It assumes that the artifact produces the TU, but the wording of the PoTT suggests that it is the TU that produces the Artifact. It also assumes that at the end of the movie there is only one engine, but the phone conversation on the website confirma that there are two identical engines; one that killed Donnie and one still in service. There is also the assumption that the LR has powers in the PU, whereas the PoTT implies theat the LR only has powers in the TU.
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