Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane
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Post by Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane on Dec 19, 2006 21:18:34 GMT -5
yeah, somewhere it was suggested that Richard Kelly was manipulated living (!?). [right now two characters are playing hungry hungry hippos on t.v.]
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Post by greedy on Dec 31, 2006 18:06:12 GMT -5
so if theres no time travle retrocauslity can not exist?
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Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane
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Post by Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane on Jan 1, 2007 13:08:49 GMT -5
not so much time travel per se but present individuals/events having an influence/effect on the past. not necessarily those individuals "traveling" bodily into the past to cause change; some other more "discrete" or subliminal influence. difficult to articulate; surely Bigboy will weigh in w/ more definitive answer.
p.s. to Greedy: thank you for your service so far from home. be safe yes? and make your return.
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Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane
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Post by Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane on Jan 1, 2007 13:59:46 GMT -5
picture standing by a calm pond; a toy boat is floating along the opposite shore. you throw a stone into the water and ripples flow out from the spot. eventually the ripples reach the boat and toss it about, turning it perhaps or somehow repositioning it. though you have not moved at all, you have had an effect on something at a distance (consider the boat in the "past"). what the ripples represent, or the stone, is uncertain: thought? intention? this is at best a crude illustration of something barely understood (by myself). what i wonder also is if retrocausality is linked w/ time reversal symmetry. is the cause always the cause?
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Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane
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Post by Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane on Jan 2, 2007 11:09:41 GMT -5
actually, given the law of the conservation of energy, as well as the fact that nothing is created or destroyed (on the atomic level), then all things could be said to exist eternally and why not w/ a "memory" of or even a "living" link w/ the past (and the future?). something to ponder more deeply over a bowl of fruity loops...
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Post by greedy on Jan 2, 2007 16:55:06 GMT -5
but time travel must exist for an event to have an effect on the pastthen it has to backpedal to that time to effect it
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Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane
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Post by Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane on Jan 3, 2007 14:09:47 GMT -5
fair enough but what is traveling? could be more like time folding over on itself or collapsing; or like influence "traveling back in time" the way voices "travel" through telephone connections (does the voice really go anywhere?). also, via the multiverse theory perhaps there is a multi-now in existence. not sure myself; not a certified quantum mechanic yet.
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Post by Bigboy on Jan 3, 2007 21:55:49 GMT -5
Retrocausality isnt about jumping from now to another point in time (the past), rather that some effects can propogate in the opposite direction than we are used to.
We travel in time all the time (er..) : forwards. Retrocausal things are travelling down that same street at the same 'rate', but in the opposite direction.
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Post by spacecowboy on May 25, 2007 10:46:40 GMT -5
From what I've read (and a lecture I attended) retrocausality applies to sub-atomic particles only ... if it exists at all.
After all, if the "me" in the future could affect my present self, wouldn't my future self make my life a whole lot better? Or maybe my future self is just as twisted and wicked as I am now.
Hmmm ...
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Post by Bigboy on May 27, 2007 16:28:36 GMT -5
From what I've read (and a lecture I attended) retrocausality applies to sub-atomic particles only ... if it exists at all. You're probably right - the same way we're never likely to see a basketball in quntum superposition... But I thought the idea that such an effect could be harnessed somehow may have bearing on how we could interpret the movie...
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Post by spacecowboy on May 29, 2007 11:56:58 GMT -5
Yeah, time is a funny thing - even without time travel.
Scientists spend time studying things that are really all not that important. For example, they've determined, using all their instruments and mathematical formulae, frequent flyers, over the span of years, will actually age more slowly because an airplane flies "closer to the speed of light" than those sitting at their desks.
Airlines should work this into their ad campaigns: "Fly Air Darko! It'll make you 0,078 seconds younger!".
There again, the jet engine from an airliner played an important role in DD. I've no doubt that this question has already been addressed; if Donnie had not done what he was supposed to do, his mother and sister would have died in an airplane crash. Was that the event he had to stop from happening? Maybe his little sister was destined to be a dancer with Britney Spears or something. Then again, Richard Kelly was never clear on that point either.
I'm a little in the dark(o) here (sorry, couldn't help it) but is there a novelization of the movie? I printed out the script and it's very short compared to other scripts I've printed out. So Kelly might release a pamphlet instead of a novel. Oh! A pop-up type book might be good, too. It would help explain a lot.
Looks like I'm going off in my own tangent universe here ...
By the way, Bigboy, you should stay away from encephalopods. Just can't trust them. Stick to jumping off roofs. That's much safer.
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Post by Bigboy on May 30, 2007 12:42:01 GMT -5
Squid?
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Post by spacecowboy on May 30, 2007 14:32:07 GMT -5
<Warning: The following contains REAL science. Discretion is advised).> Yeah ... squids, ninjas. It's all the same. (I heard a rumour that squid are actually Timelords. Shhh ...). To pick up the thread ... There is a known particle that could be considered an example of retrocausalty. In short: "Tachyons have the strange properties that, when they lose energy, they gain speed. Consequently, when tachyons gain energy, they slow down. The slowest speed possible for tachyons is the speed of light. Tachyons are known as superluminal particle. Tachyons appear to violate causality (the so-called causality problem), since they could be sent to the past under the assumption that the principle of special relativity is a true law of nature, thus generating a real unavoidable time paradox. Therefore, it seems unavoidable that if tachyons exist, the principle of special relativity must be false, and there exists a unique time order for all observers in the universe independent of their state of motion." In other words, tachyons seem to be moving backward in time. Of course, tachyons are particles that have comparatively little mass. Trying to do the same to 170 lb. man would be nearly impossible. The amount of energy needed would be mind-boggling! In other time travel news: If you went back in time and met your teenage parents, you could not split them up and prevent your birth - even if you wanted to, a new quantum model has stated. Researchers speculate that time travel can occur within a kind of feedback loop where backwards movement is possible, but only in a way that is "complementary" to the present. In other words, you can pop back in time and have a look around, but you cannot do anything that will alter the present you left behind. The new model, which uses the laws of quantum mechanics, gets rid of the famous paradox surrounding time travel. According to Einstein, space-time can curve back on itself, theoretically allowing travelers to double back and meet younger versions of themselves. And now a team of physicists from the US and Austria says this situation can only be the case if there are physical constraints acting to protect the present from changes in the past. Quantum behaviour is governed by probabilities. Before something has actually been observed, there are a number of possibilities regarding its state. But once its state has been measured those possibilities shrink to one - uncertainty is eliminated. "Quantum mechanics distinguishes between something that might happen and something that did happen," said Professor Dan Greenberger, of the City University of New York, US. "But if you know he is alive, there is no chance you can kill him." "You go back to kill your father," continued but you'd arrive after he'd left the room, you wouldn't find him, or you'd change your mind," said Professor Greenberger. "You wouldn't be able to kill him because the very fact that he is alive today is going to conspire against you so that you'll never end up taking that path leads you to killing him." And so the the so-called causality problem is resolved by Physics itself. Speaking of ripples, try to image the circular waves moving in toward the center instead of outward. Would the ripple correct the boat's position? So much to discuss ...
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Post by greedy on Jun 3, 2007 15:35:39 GMT -5
you should read the dancing wu li masters by gary zukav it's all about quantum mechanics an newtonian physics
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Post by spacecowboy on Jun 3, 2007 21:19:58 GMT -5
Thanks, greedy. I'm always looking for stuff like that to read. I think my bookstore will soon be getting a visit from SpaceCowboy! (cue superhero music).
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