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Post by gretchen on Jan 13, 2005 17:34:23 GMT -5
You mention that "an artifact is deposited in the tangent U, rendering it unstable". But the way I read the PoTT, there is no need for an artifact to be deposited in the PU side of the wormhole/vortex for the TU to be unstable - it's inherently unstable. The Pott says "if a TU occurs, it will be highly unstable". It doesn't mention the need for an artifact to fall in. yes, a TU is unstable to begin with. but what i was trying to get at is that the artifact now makes the U's unbalanced, (the TU one engine heavier than the PU), and that when the TU collapses it will take the PU with it, instead of just fizzling out into space. i never said the PU FAA would find a crashed plane belonging to the engine deposited in the TU. and they do find the plane it matches, but that plane has not crashed and is not missing an engine. these are only theories, ideas, and postulations, you know, because we are not richard kelly and sometimes i even doubt he knows what he was trying to create. where do you think the engine came from?
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Post by mooseboy on Jan 13, 2005 18:56:10 GMT -5
Donniedarko.com tells us... The accepted theory is that the tangent universe takes place in matter of seconds when compared to the primary universe... I know this is believed by some people, but it always has seemed to me that the Tangent Universe takes place in normal time per se, it just ceases to exist at the end, putting everything back in the PU to the moment when the TU began. I don't see it as a "microsecond" type of thing, although the end result is the same... which is that no time has elapsed in the PU. where does the engine come from? the first engine is from the PU as stated, which is why the FAA guys cannot find where it came from. what you don't see in the film but find out from the website that the engine donnie returns to the PU is actually matched with a plane from the PU, except this plane isn't missing any engines. where did the first engine come from? will we ever know?... nope. because the PU FAA guys will find it's plane, since it came from the PU... and we only see about 5 minutes of film in the PU. As to the identity of the plane engine, I have always believed that it ALWAYS came from the TU (both of them), since in the PU that engine never fell (or falls) . Isn't it possible that on 10/30 Donnie's act sends that engine to BOTH universes? That the wormhole deposits one copy of the engine simply back in time within the TU (the one that Donnie avoided) and also sends it across the "Universal Plane" to the same time in the PU (the one that kills him). I realize that this would mean that the wormhole duplicated the engine, but when it comes to time travel, parallel universes, and wormholes, just about anything could happen since it's all theoretical (and theoretical fiction, at that). This theory is as good as any, I think. Feel free to point out whether there's something glaringly wrong with it.
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Post by Elwood on Jan 14, 2005 0:32:18 GMT -5
these are only theories, ideas, and postulations, you know, because we are not richard kelly and sometimes i even doubt he knows what he was trying to create. Yes, yes, I agree completely. You're quite right in pointing out that Kelly often gives the impression that he never had a completely defined plot in the first place. But there is some generally accepted view here on the board of what our best, most consistent guess is to the movie's plot. Even though I really enjoy thinking about multiple interpretations, I would still like to have a good sense of what Kelly was ultimately trying to say to us, based on all the "evidence" (film/commentary/website/interviews) we have of his intent. Please don't think I'm trying to pick on you in particular, Gretchen - I really meant to ask this question of the all the board's "longer-timers" who seem to favor this theory. Prov, Adam, rightfielder and others have posted similar first engine explanations (you just happened to write a clear and concise explanation that made my questions easier to ask ). When you said this in an earlier post in this thread: "where did the first engine come from? will we ever know?... nope. because the PU FAA guys will find it's plane, since it came from the PU... and we only see about 5 minutes of film in the PU." that gave me the impression that you thought the PU FAA would find a plane missing the engine that fell into the TU on 10/2 - either crashed or possibly safely landed, but either way missing an engine. I understood you to mean that the point in time when they would likely find the plane was after the events shown in the movie. Did I misread this? I was hoping you wouldn't ask that - I don't really have a good answer yet. I thought that by understanding the motivation behind the theory that it fell from a PU plane on 10/2 just as the vortex opened I might feel more inclined toward that theory, or a similar one. Although, if I have to make a guess, my thoughts have been going in the direction that mooseboy posted, just above. So - on to the next post...
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Post by Elwood on Jan 14, 2005 0:43:57 GMT -5
As to the identity of the plane engine, I have always believed that it ALWAYS came from the TU (both of them), since in the PU that engine never fell (or falls) . Isn't it possible that on 10/30 Donnie's act sends that engine to BOTH universes? Mooseboy, I've also been thinking about Donnie's 10/30 act being the origin for both engines, but in a slightly different context. I've been thinking that there really is only one universe, on either a primary path through time (then called the Primary Universe) or on a path tangent to the primary one (then called the Tangent Universe). It's as if the TU is the universe traveling along a second time dimension, perpendicular to the first time dimension (similar to traveling in one spatial direction, perpendicular to the other two). When Donnie sends the engine back on 10/30, he sends it back to the one and only universe just after midnight on 10/2. We see the engine in the TU, but then the TU ends, time "unwinds" as the TU is destroyed, and the universe travels backwards in time along the tangent time path until it meets the PU/TU intersection. This "unwinding" has the same effect as your description of the TU ceasing to exist, mooseboy, putting everything back to the PU (I kind of like thinking of it as unwinding, perhaps just from the "unwinding" images in the film). And I like your sense that there's no need to consider the TU as happening in an "microsecond" or some subset of PU time. Similar to what you say, in a tangent-timeline description no time at all has passed in the PU during the events of the TU. Now that the universe is back at the PU/TU intersection, it can continue along the PU timeline. Everything is exactly like it was at the start of the TU, except that there is a residual memory of what happened in the minds of the manipulated (& receiver). We then see the very same engine show up at the very same time, just after midnight on 10/2. Thinking of it this way avoids the need to have to duplicate the engine. The engine is no more duplicated than any other part of the world. There aren't two Donnies, two of Donnie's house or two of Frank's car, either. This also avoids the question of how people and things get transported from the PU to the TU and back again. They're already there, since we're always talking about the same one and only universe. One possibly big hole in either of these ways of looking at things is the implication of the engine showing up in the TU for Donnie's free will. If that engine comes from the TU on 10/30, then Donnie must have sent it. Does the fact that we see the engine at the beginning of the movie in the TU mean that there is no way Donnie can choose not to send it on 10/30? After all, we know it has to show up. Gretchen, that's my current best way of explaining the origin of the first engine. I'll admit that I'm not really thoroughly comfortable with it yet. *Sigh* Someday I'll manage to be nicer to everyone, and learn to write short posts (Sorry!).
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