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Post by submachine on Feb 21, 2007 2:12:38 GMT -5
Again, a) a created entity must have a starting point. Again, this is an assumption presented as a statement of fact. Actually no, it is not an assumption, it is by definition a logically true and accurate statement: Create 1. To cause to exist; bring into being. That is, not exist --> cause to exist --> exist. Again, my supposition is that linear logic as applied by 3D folk is meaningless to a 4D entity. Again, your theory is understood, but it doesn't relate to the MD because Sparrow (Kelly) has explained to us with the PoTT that the MD is created - one assumes to render the "4D God did it" reasoning invalid, not unlike how Kelly shows characters besides Donnie remember events so that the simplistic "It was all Donnies dream" is equally invalid. One could always say the mover or director (ie "God") of all of these separate events "always existed in 4D", but that has nothing specifically to do with the movie Donnie Darko or its characters including the MD, a distinct and separate entity.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Feb 21, 2007 9:20:55 GMT -5
it is by definition a logically true and accurate statement We've gone wholly flat in this discussion. The bedrock of your argument is what I've quoted above: that linear causality is an immutable fact. The bedrock of my argument is that linear causality may be a 3D way of perceiving the fourth dimension. Our posts are making no headway. Let's leave off and see what others have to say, if anything.
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Post by submachine on Feb 25, 2007 5:01:05 GMT -5
The bedrock of your argument is what I've quoted above: that linear causality is an immutable fact. The bedrock of my argument is that linear causality may be a 3D way of perceiving the fourth dimension. Again, both are theoretically possible, that is not in debate, and it is not the debate. With specific regards to Donnie Darko, which you've been avoiding for some reason, there is no argument since a) linear causality is explicitly described in the PoTT: "If a person dies within the Tangent Universe" and b) the fourth dimension is also explicitly described: "they are able to contact the Living Receiver through the Fourth Dimensional Construct." You can't pick and choose which theory fits because Kelly already did it for you. Simply put, we know the MD has a starting point ("if a person dies"), a creation, and we know once it is created, they can be everywhere and "everywhen". Concluding, MDead Frank in the movie could not have come from living Frank in the movie, but only from a previous living Frank, in a previous TU time-loop.
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Post by faerun on Jan 12, 2008 20:53:36 GMT -5
Hey there guys, I'm new here, great clear description at the beginning of this topic. There is only one thing I do not understand. Quote: After the engine crashes and kills Donnie, the OTHER (identical) engine that already exists in that timeline will be investigated thoroughly, and will not fly, or crash, on this October 30th timeline, hence no tangent will be created, the cycle is over, that is how Donnies action saved the future.Why would the engine only 'not fly' when Donnie is killed. Wouldn't it be investigated very thoroughly even if he is not killed? This is the only part of the explanation that sounds strange to me, but...it's a very important part of the whole, so I would really like to understand it Thanks in advance! Cheers!
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Post by Bigboy on Jan 14, 2008 16:15:58 GMT -5
He's saying, if you were the FAA and you were investigating a crashed engine, would you allow the plane with the engine that is seemingly identical down to the serial number fly or would you ground it and investigate?
THIS bit makes sense, but i'd go back and read again critically - Sub's explanation is pretty flawed...
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Jan 14, 2008 17:19:43 GMT -5
It seems to me that an airline company would have several identical planes, so I'm not sure they could recognize them without the aid of a serial number.
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Post by faerun on Jan 14, 2008 17:39:57 GMT -5
I don't think you got my question right. In the explanation they say: After the engine crashes and kills Donnie, the OTHER (identical) engine that already exists in that timeline will be investigated thoroughly, and will not fly, or crash, on this October 30th timeline, hence no tangent will be created, the cycle is over, that is how Donnies action saved the future. -------------------- In the tangent, where Donnie isn't killed, but the Engine just falls into the house. Why would this mean the plane WOULD fly. And in the real world, when donnie is killed, why WOULDN'T it suddenly fly... I just don't understand that part. I understand that, when it would be investigated, it wouldn't fly, thus solving the tangent. What I don't understand is, why isn't it investigated the first time (in the tangent, when it doens't kill donnie) Hope it's more clear now, thanks in advance!
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Post by Bigboy on Jan 14, 2008 18:07:01 GMT -5
Well you've highlighted a crack in the theory - he's saying that tangent and real are both encompassed inside a time loop - it does allow for two crashes if you accept that the second is the first time in the Primary universe. But the idea of having a loop overlap primary and tqangent universes has always seemed wonky to me...
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Post by Majorpayne4075 on Oct 13, 2008 23:56:43 GMT -5
Also Frank-Bunny made mention that in the theatre said that his name is Frank like all his fathers before him. hinting at the time loop of failed attempts.
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Post by Majorpayne4075 on Oct 14, 2008 0:05:02 GMT -5
lol whoops i didnt read down to the end now i sound like a jackass lol this shits interesting to me though
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Post by Fernando on Oct 27, 2008 18:35:49 GMT -5
I hope people still read this topic. If I get some answers I will post my concepts...
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Post by Tapion on Nov 24, 2008 15:32:20 GMT -5
I think I have a potential solution that encompasses both the loop theory and the 4D-being theory.
You have on the one hand, a 3D Being, Donnie Darko, who is restricted to chronological time flow, and MD Frank, who is not.
Perhaps what we see in the movie is the chronological order of MD Frank's successes on multiple timelines at once. So, for example, MD Frank goes back to the beginning of the TU, 10 seconds later he realizes he messed up, he can go back 10 seconds and try again but the universe he left behind is forced to loop since he failed. So when watching the movie, we are in fact seeing a loop, but it's the truly successful loop that MD Frank finally creates after many failed attempts at each chronological point along the movie.
Sorry in advanced if this was discussed and I missed it..
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Post by lindsay on Jan 3, 2009 2:52:50 GMT -5
i would like to know what was so special about the fear and love guy. what was his part?
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Post by Phil on Jan 5, 2009 6:51:38 GMT -5
do you mean jim cunningham (patrick swayze)?
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Post by chance on Apr 6, 2009 10:39:24 GMT -5
ok you guys use some big words but i get what you are saying, what my theory is, is that its "gods plan" . heres why.... at the end of the movie he travels back to the beginning when he was saposed to die, when he travels back to the beginning threw the portal he brings the airplane engine with him....so if he never traveled back the engine would have never hit the house to begin with... you with me? in one scene him and the man teacher were talking about if it was god then everything is predestined. this point is proven at the end when he jumps back because of the engine jumping back with him. its alittle confusing, for darko to die the manipulated dead had to some how trick him into going back at that point.... why the manipulated dead wanted darko dead i dont know. and as for the man in the red jump suit, i dont think it was darko.... could you see a "genius" older darko from the 2000's dressed in a red jump suit sunglasses smoking ciggerettes with a sweatband and wristbands???... dont think so.. just looked like some weird fat idiot. i dont think the world was going to end, i think the hole in the sky was just a tornado... the manipulated dead wanted darko dead for some reason... maybe because darko killed him? dunno if anybody has a theory post
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