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Post by flacidsteel716x on Jun 21, 2009 21:56:59 GMT -5
I feel like this is the most critical part of understanding the whole movie... Why does Donnie willingly go back to die in his room?
1. Does he do it because his death will so severly change the future that the world will not end? or 2. Does he do it because if he dies he will change the path of the future therefore saving Gretchen, Rosie, Sam, and Frank? If (2) is true and his death doesnt stop the end of the world then why was Dead Frank trying to make Donnie follow that path...why was he sent back at all?
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Post by Phil on Jun 22, 2009 11:07:52 GMT -5
donnies himself insnt sent back. the story merely goes back to the PU after the TU collapses.
your pretty much right with 2. If he was to survive then everyhting that happened in the TU could end up happening in the TU, leaving him alone.
A lot of us think that grandma death was also a living reciever at some point (hence how she wrote the book, changed overnight etc) but chose to live after the experience which is why she is now alone.
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Post by flacidsteel716x on Jun 22, 2009 12:48:50 GMT -5
If only the viewer goes back (and not TU Donnie) to the PU after the TU collapses, and Donnie has no knowledge of the events that occured through the whole movie (TU), then why is he laughing and at piece with himself? Because it certainly didnt look like he was at piece right before that when he called his mother a bitch.
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Post by Phil on Jun 23, 2009 5:42:56 GMT -5
he does have knowledge of it.
Everyone does, thats what the dreams sequence is about.
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Post by Vivienne on Jun 25, 2009 23:11:04 GMT -5
don't you ever wonder what would happen if you would have made a different choice with some things?. the film digs deeper into that concept...frank is there to lead donnie into this alternate universe and show him that things don't have to end in his death. It is completely up to donnie to decide everyone's destiny. but donnie learns that it is best to let things fall apart on there own instead of ripping things to peices that are already destined to end....the idea is....what would you do?
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Post by hfgh on Jun 30, 2009 2:42:11 GMT -5
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Post by schizobunny on Aug 10, 2009 21:36:09 GMT -5
Hes knowledgable about the TU at the end which is when he decides to telekenesis the jet engine to his own bedroom right after the TU collapses. The whole TU is what the future would be like if he wasnt killed. Frank makes him realize that he, the living reciever, must dies to prevent the horrible things from happening. Its basic self sacrifice only in a much more complicated version.
And as for Grandma Death she was in all ways an old Reciever and i suspect she had so sacrifice sanity. Maybe instead of seeing a Bunny she got letters in the mail. Hense her always being at her Mailbox.
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knifeplay
Full Member
Gregory Crewdson is god
Posts: 103
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Post by knifeplay on Aug 31, 2009 8:03:53 GMT -5
reading this thread makes me want to watch DD right now everytime i come on here i learn more , well just think about the theories
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Post by Jzaf on Dec 7, 2009 21:41:46 GMT -5
Maybe, if grandma death had chosen to die by being smashed by frank's car donnie wouldn't had to sacrifice himself. That could make sense.
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Post by Rand on Dec 23, 2009 21:33:37 GMT -5
If you read the Philosophy of Time Travel included on the collector's edition or read it online somewhere, you will see the theories listed here don't make sense, and neither does him having to die to save the PU. I will try to address each post as best as I can after reading and thinking a lot about the movie. "If only the viewer goes back (and not TU Donnie) to the PU after the TU collapses, and Donnie has no knowledge of the events that occured through the whole movie (TU), then why is he laughing and at piece with himself?"It states in the Philosophy of Time Travel that the people directly involved in the TU can have memories of what happened there when they go back to the PU, but that most won't directly remember or that they will only remember in a dream. The ones that directly remember generally have great remorse for what happened in the TU, so he probably wouldn't be laughing if he did remember. "he does have knowledge of it.
Everyone does, thats what the dreams sequence is about."That isn't true according to the PoTT. If you read the answer to the previous post above, it basically answers this one too. The ones in the ending sequence that did directly remember were the remorseful ones (Cunningham, Farmer, and Frank.) "Hes knowledgable about the TU at the end which is when he decides to telekenesis the jet engine to his own bedroom right after the TU collapses. The whole TU is what the future would be like if he wasnt killed. Frank makes him realize that he, the living reciever, must dies to prevent the horrible things from happening. Its basic self sacrifice only in a much more complicated version."Almost everything about this statement is wrong I think. He HAS to send the artifact (the jet engine) back to the PU to stop the TU from collapsing and starting a black hole that will also destroy the PU. The reason he HAS to, is because he fell for the ensurance trap set by the manipulated dead (Frank). It states all of this in the PoTT. Nowhere in the PoTT does it say the Living Receiver has to sacrifice himself for the sake of others. The TU is not what the future would be like if he didn't die, it's an alternate reality created by the artifact alone, and the artifact being sent back to the PU is the only way to end the TU and the destruction of the PU. Donnie dieing has nothing to do with saving the others. "Maybe, if grandma death had chosen to die by being smashed by frank's car donnie wouldn't had to sacrifice himself. That could make sense."That has nothing to do with anything stated in the PoTT. As I said before, the Living Reciever does not have to die to save the PU. They just have to send the artifact that created the TU back to the PU. Grandma Death dieing would not do anything at all, just as donnie dieing has nothing to do with saving the PU. So.... All of this still leaves the question: Why did Darko kill himself? When going through all of the information in the PoTT and watching the movie many times, I think I have finally figured it out. Obviously, the only reason Gretchen and Frank died in the TU was because future frank directed donnie to make those events happen. He did so because it was the ensurance trap he had to set to make donnie understand that he had to send back the artifact. If the living receiver falls for the trap, then he has no choice but to send the artifact back to the PU. So having stated all that, it isn't reasonable to say that he had to die to stop the events. Those events only happened because of the creation of the TU, and at the end when he dies he is already back in the PU with the problem resolved fully. The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that he doesn't remember what happened in the TU at all. If you look back at the beginning, the only reason he didn't die the first time was that Frank lead him away from his room. Frank only did that because donnie is the living receiver and had to survive to later collapse the TU and save the PU. Basically it's all part of the ensurance trap from the start. Once donnie collapses the TU and goes back to the PU with no knowledge, just a sense of fullfillment and completion, he starts laughing. He doesn't know a jet engine is about to fall into his room. At least, that's the only thing I can see being plausible. If he knew about it, he would have left. There was no reason for him to stay and die. Frank wouldn't come back to him in the PU after the TU was collapsed, so none of the bad things would have happened in reality, just in the TU. So basically, he died because he would have died to begin with if Frank didn't interfere. Frank only interfered to save the PU because of the TU collapse. Since that was already done, donnie stayed in his room as he would have done originally with no knowledge of his immanent death. Also, if anyone hasn't read the PoTT and is confused, here is a link to it so you can understand what the hell I'm talking about. ;D www.alchemicoblu.it/pdf/philosophy_time_travel.pdfI don't really agree with the person's interpretation at the bottom fully, but the whole top part of the document is directly from the PoTT so you can use that for reference to my answers. Well, I hope that huge blurb helped out. It still isn't set in stone of course since alot of it is just interpretation, but it's the only answer I can figure out after pouring over all the info.
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Post by twinkle on Dec 24, 2009 17:55:49 GMT -5
^thank you for this most thoughtful consideration. you bring out some good points & observations. could it also be possible that Donnie does remember everything and believes that the jet engine is no longer a threat to him? perhaps he thinks that the engine detaching from the plane is what caused the TU, and that since the TU is now gone and all is well w/the PU then the engine will stay on the plane and there is no danger to him or anyone. it's certainly true that he needn't "sacrifice" himself to save the PU, as he's already successfully completed his mission as Living Receiver when we see him laughing in his bed. this continues to be a source of debate and i think in particular because of Donnie's laughter: does he think it was all a dream/hallucination? does he remember and laughs with relief? why is he laughing? his laughter seems to suggest a cognizance of what has gone before. there is repeated reference in the film to "doomed" people: Donnie's father mentions it regarding a former classmate (named Frank who died while driving, if memory serves) and Gretchen asks Donnie about it during the party. Donnie is "doomed" to die no matter what (by the hand of Richard Kelly, writer/director, as in neither version of the film does Donnie escape death), but i think it incorrect to suggest that he "had" to die to be in compliance w/POTT or to save the PU. thanks for the post & hope to read more... p.s. there are lots & lots of opinions/views/interpretations offered at the following, in case you've missed it darkomovie.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ending and especially here darkomovie.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ending&action=display&thread=949
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Post by dan769 on Dec 29, 2009 18:01:25 GMT -5
Re: Rand Absolutely spot on analysis. I've been making this exact case for quite a while now and you have Pretty much wrote word for word how i feel about this subject. There is absolutely no reason Donnie HAS TO DIE. The corruption is already fixed when he gets crushed. If he got up and walked away nothing would change at all. Here's a better link to the Philosphy of Time Travel as a web page, not a PDF. www.donniedarko.org.uk/philosphy-of-time-travel/
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Post by godlysparrow on Jan 16, 2010 14:38:53 GMT -5
He doesn't have to die, but maybe he wants to. He traveled back in Time, didn't he? He couldn't of been sent by anyone else. Frank lured him away to show him wany the Universe is like if he lives. And what does he see? He sees his Love die. He sees the World will end. If he chooses this one destiny, to live, everyone will die, and he will Die alone. He says 'Deus Ex Machina' in the movie, God in the Machine, to make a point. He wants to believe in God, he wants to have someone to die with. He has the Power to Travel Back in Time. Frank lures him away from his Timelike Path to show him what will be. Then, he sent himself back. Frank can only Time-Travel himself, not others, as seen in him luring Donnie away from bed rather than just forcing him. Donnie himself does all his own Time-Traveling, as does Frank. Frank just shows Donnie that he can Live a Normal Life for 28 more days, then he himself goes back to die.
Why? If you knew, knowing what Donnie knew, that the World was gonna end, you could save it, but you'd have to die, or get to live 28 more days, woul you? He died to save the world, because Donnie Darko grows up. He sees a picture bigger than him, and he decides that every living creature on Earth doesn't have to die alone. He saves his Love and his Family, and that all that matters to him know. He laughes because he's happy.
At least that's my interpretation.
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Post by dan769 on Jan 20, 2010 8:13:23 GMT -5
Firstly Donnie NEVER travels through time. Donnie erases the Tangent Universe which removes those 28 days from existence and the Primary Universe starts back up again on October 2nd. The Donnie that wakes up laughing in bed is not the same Donnie from the last 28 days of the movie. You seem to be subscribing to the idea that Frank shows Donnie the future and then Donnie chooses to die so all those bad things wont happen. I’d love to know where this theory started as it’s become very popular considering it’s massively flawed! The major flaw with it is what Frank shows him. Frank himself guides Donnie to flood the school and burn Cunningham’s house down. It’s Frank who plays a huge part in that timeline. Basically Donnie is shown a future that would never happen in the Primary Universe. He bases his decision to live or die over events that could NEVER happen! I think you should read this: www.donniedarko.org.uk/explanation/
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Post by godlysparrow on Jan 24, 2010 20:20:29 GMT -5
Firstly Donnie NEVER travels through time. Donnie erases the Tangent Universe which removes those 28 days from existence and the Primary Universe starts back up again on October 2nd. The Donnie that wakes up laughing in bed is not the same Donnie from the last 28 days of the movie. Yes, the Donnie from the Future isn't the Same, just as the differences are Obvious Frank from the Future isn't the Same. Anyway, whether he Travels Backward in Time or sideways from a Tangent Universe, only Donnie Time Travels. From what he has learned, he could never be the 'Same' Donnie. The major flaw with it is what Frank shows him. Frank himself guides Donnie to flood the school and burn Cunningham’s house down. It’s Frank who plays a huge part in that timeline. Basically Donnie is shown a future that would never happen in the Primary Universe. He bases his decision to live or die over events that could NEVER happen! Frank plays his part by Guiding Donnie. Everyone obviously is only guiding him in their actions. Whenever his one friend says "Someone Outta Right that Bitch.". Gretchen's love gives Donnie a Kick out the Door to the Primary Universe, or equivicolly back in Time. Whether he goes forward or Sideways through Time, it is the Same. The Philosophy of Time Travel still gives him the Idea on How To, either way everything is to assure he learns his lesson. Obviously, this is a Donnie-Centric Universe, and yet he learns to connect with others. Anyway, the Events do 'Happen', on some level of Existence (parellel to ours), and it is not the Events that even Matter, it is what Donnie gets from them. Also, you can't just 'Erase' a Universe. Also, consider that that Unverse Travel's Forward in Normal Time yet it is different in another Dimension of Time, some kind of State Space. He has to travel Backward even if he is in Another Universe. Also, Frank, one of the other few people who can Time Travel in the Movie had to go Backward and Sideways in Time to Reach Donnie, from his Death to October 2nd and Sideways to when he Dies. Why does Frank Time Travel? How does he know how to? As an Independent Time Traveler, what compells him to Save a Killer, why should Donnie or anyone else be pulled into this Alternative Universe? What makes Frank Care? Donnie probably can be the only Time Traveler, because no one Else is actually seen Time Traveling, and Donnie is the Only one who ever knows how. Thus, obviously both Backward and Sideways Time Travel are both Required, or at least Backward, to make a coherent interpretation.
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