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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 12:16:19 GMT -5
he had to die. if he didnt everything would happen all over again. Hmmm. By what rationale do you believe things would recur if Donnie hadn't died? Our common wisdom on the board holds that Donnie has ended the threat to the PU by returning the artifact (well, "returning" is currently a word in dispute at the "What's up with that ending?" thread) to the PU. In effect, the threat is over, the corruption in the 4th Dimension's been eliminated and things can go on as usual. I'm interested to hear what leads you to believe differently. edit: changed errantly typed "TU" to "PU"
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Post by lala on Oct 11, 2004 12:41:13 GMT -5
dont you think that if he would have gotten up. it would have started all over again? i mean something had to change in order to save his mom, sister and girlfriend (him dying). with him dying he never would have done the things he did in order for the deaths to occur.
i totally understand your point with the whole returning of the artifact. it maked sense. it now had a source/orgin/place where it came from, even if it was unexplainable and the TU is destroyed. saving the PU and all that. so now i am just totally contradicting myself.
and now in the epiphany i had while writing this post i understand why the big question is "WHY DID DONNIE DIE?"
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 14:07:56 GMT -5
dont you think that if he would have gotten up. it would have started all over again? i mean something had to change in order to save his mom, sister and girlfriend (him dying). That's just what I believe had happend -- before he died. But, in my opinion, his experiences in the Tangent Universe weren't a vision of the future as it would happen if he didn't wake up ... they were all part of the role he played as the Living Receiver, and by his actions in the TU he eliminates the threat to the whole of the Primary Universe, which of course includes but is not limited to his family. I don't see a loop, though I can see how the mirror activities in the TU can feel like one. Instead, I see Donnie (and those others who, like him, live in the PU near the epicenter of the corruption in time -- manifested as the wormhole) transported to the TU. There Donnie, through heroic actions guided by the influence of the Manipulated Dead and the Manipulated Living, returns the artifact to the PU and closes the TU, thereby righting things and heading off the possibility that the unstable TU would terminate and take the PU with it. As Gretchen reminded me, this all occurs in an instant of Primary Universe time on Oct 2, 1988. Donnie's mom and others aren't destined to die in a plane crash on 10/30 -- nothing will rip the engine from the plane and send it into a parallel universe. That's how I see it. What's your perspective?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 14:28:30 GMT -5
dont you think that if he would have gotten up. it would have started all over again? No, for all the reasons Providence stated...
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Post by boardgames on Oct 11, 2004 14:37:29 GMT -5
its lala
ok so let me get this striaght. what you are saying is that what happend at the moment that Frank called Donnie out to the golf course from there on out is understood to be the TU, every thing that happens here happens for a reason. to get the living reciver to place the artifact where it needs to go to save the world from falling into itself? when the artifact is placed where it needs to be and now has an orgin the TU collapses and the PU is safe from destruction and the things that happend in the TU again?
this is why there is no "loop"?
o yeah and i am curious to know your theories on smurfs?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 14:42:44 GMT -5
Yes...
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 15:30:29 GMT -5
All correctly stated, according to our shared understanding here on the boards. Very correctly stated ... ... which makes me think we're being played with, a little. Are you just having fun at my expense?
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 15:34:21 GMT -5
Congrats on the status, RF. Boy, we built up those stars fast, didn't we?
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 11, 2004 15:49:45 GMT -5
LOL.... I didn't even notice... A little too fast...
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Post by boardgames on Oct 11, 2004 15:52:37 GMT -5
All correctly stated, according to our shared understanding here on the boards. Very correctly stated ... ... which makes me think we're being played with, a little. Are you just having fun at my expense? ?
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 16:17:00 GMT -5
Point was: boardgames, after proposing a pretty diametrically opposed perspective (Donnie's in a loop), you pretty easily repeated all the important detail that prove -- in so much as anything in our discussions "proves" anything else -- Donnie's not in a loop. Made me wonder if you were just posing a contrary point to see whether people would counter it. If that's not what you were doing, please know that I meant no offense in wondering. edit: fixed subject/verb agreement
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Post by boardgames on Oct 11, 2004 16:26:16 GMT -5
o not at all i was a confused soul when i wrote that comment and after reading others perspecitves and points i have come to agree with them and am now in the light. im not trying to mess with anyone. just trying to figure things out.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 11, 2004 16:27:43 GMT -5
Great -- then you're with rest of us! We're all just trying to figure things out . Welcome aboard. We're glad you're here.
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Post by gretchen on Oct 11, 2004 17:43:10 GMT -5
yea! another girl!
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Post by josh on Oct 22, 2004 21:29:36 GMT -5
Perhaps that was the best time for Donnie to die? A deleted scene of of Donnie and Gretchen in the arcade has dialogue during which Donnie describes waking from his sonambulations with a memory that slowly fades. If Donnie had not died, the memory of his reasons for hope and "lots to look forward to" in finding God would be lost after a few minutes. By dying then, well actually by being squished without his consent, Donnie dies hopeful. Had Donnie died later in the PU he might have reverted to his previous state of uncertainty regarding God, hope, and dying alone.
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