Bart Holkenborg Netherlands
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Post by Bart Holkenborg Netherlands on Dec 3, 2003 4:14:12 GMT -5
Heej guys Donnie Darko is my favourite movie too.. My own conclusions after watching the film a couple of times wasn't correct and therefor I was really amazed to see you guys getting all that stuff out of the plot just watching it. Now I have watched the 'commentary of writer'-version and I know exactly how you get all your clues. The director tells you all.. just watch that version. He tells you the red fat guy is FA, he tells about Gretchen and Frank being images of the future, etc. etc. Why do you guys still have questions? Greetings, Bart
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how bout them boilers
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Post by how bout them boilers on Dec 3, 2003 4:27:56 GMT -5
alright, my head hurts from reading all this stuff...
1st of all, phishpac, the red jump suit guy appears when DD wants to kiss his girl when they are walkin in the woods, and again he appears to be spying on the party....
2nd, i dont agree that DD came from the present (mystic, you almost had me on this one... just too far fetched)...
3rd... i think the main question of the movie is: does everyone die alone? DD tries to ask his science teacher what it all means, but his teacher can’t answer—he’ll lose his job. He can’t tell Donnie how to travel in time because it means telling Donnie that there is a sovereign God who created time and who oversees it, and that there are points in the future that already exist and are predetermined by a God. When DD is back in bed at the very end of the movie, he laughs. He should laugh: he has time traveled, and he realizes he is not alone, he knows how deeply his mother loves him. (-Whats it like to have a wacko for a son(DD)...-It's wonderful(Mother)). He knows Gretchen loves him, he knows that God exists and loves him, he knows he is not dying alone, and he knows that there are much worse things than death... i.e. roberta sparrows lonely demise because she chose wrong.... he laughs because he has figured it all out....
Well, the movie was great, and so are all these theories... any of them could be right, or wrong, depending on how you look at it... and whoever said mullholand drive was crap... you are nuts... great movie...
oh yeah... Go Boilers!... we beat the dukies!!!... gonna whack anybody we play in our BOWL, and our hoops D is gonna be NASTY!!!!
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Post by phishpac on Dec 4, 2003 1:34:44 GMT -5
what is the reasoning behind believing the guy in the jumpsuit is donnie ?
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Bart Holkenborg Netherlands
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Post by Bart Holkenborg Netherlands on Dec 4, 2003 7:02:32 GMT -5
The men in the red suit is a FA-guy, that's what the writer's commentary is when you look at that version... so there is no discussion about that...
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Post by phishpac on Dec 5, 2003 12:21:36 GMT -5
that's kind of my point. I'm not disputing that the guy is supposed to be donnie, but what would make anyone think the he is supposed to be donnie if it weren't for the directors commentary over the movie ?
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Post by cristilynn333 on Dec 5, 2003 16:07:51 GMT -5
i just want to thank everyone from this site for all of the info on DD. i absolutely love the movie and as i have read through these discussions, you have all helped so much in understanding it and thinking of the different possibilities! cristi
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Post by MrNobody on Dec 6, 2003 6:15:18 GMT -5
About the begining of the movie and rather he is sleepcycling or going back to 1988 or not. I think he is sleep walking b/c I learned in my Psych 1101 class that there have been instances where guys have driven a car while sleep walking.
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Post by Paddy on Dec 6, 2003 10:09:36 GMT -5
I think you're all reading way to much into it - its a very open story but I think everybody is oversaturating it with opinions and ignoring the core values. The point I feel is that for whatever reasons Donnie is going to die in the crash without ever experiencing love, emotion and the empowerment within himself to speak out about things. The beauty of the film is that aided by his guides he gets to experience all these things whilst simultaineously fullfilling the sequence of events that will allow him back from the tangent loop. Thats why he laughs to himself at the end with the voice over saying "what if you got a chance to go back...". Its that simple, the extra bits are thrown in to add to the cult appeal of the film and have us arguing about it - which is cool in a way I guess.... but surely the thing that touches us all most about the film is Donnies transformation from uncaring loner to unselfish, feeling completeness?
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Post by Fatty on Dec 7, 2003 16:35:43 GMT -5
Agreed completely, although it would have been nice if Gretchen hadn't died that was just evil, couldnt she have just been like badly hurt? Or mortally injured?! I mean he isn't exactly gonna be happy watching Gretchen die as she shouts "Donnie!". Oh well...
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Post by Pax on Dec 7, 2003 21:04:41 GMT -5
Paddy, I agree with you, even though I'm posting stuff and discuss this movie with friends. I think the film is really boiled down to a few core concepts, i.e. the existence of God, love, alienation, sacrifice, and the chance to change both inwardly and outwardly. Richard Kelly didn't know whether he would ever make another movie, so "Donnie Darko" is kind of a hodge-podge that expresses a few core ideas. And its density and oblique style just lends itself to this type of endless discussion. Also, Fatty, I hate when Gretchen dies too. But really, if she had just been hurt, then it wouldn't have the same impact would it?
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Post by EricDraven on Dec 16, 2003 22:41:53 GMT -5
Thats right Pax, Gretchen, like Donnie had to die. Because Donnie was the only one who could close the tangent universe, he was the only really real person, everyone else is what they call The manipulated living, and as we all know (or hope you do) the manipulated living (and dead) force the chosen one to close the tangent universe.So the little ditty in those one arseholes heads said to go and loot Grandma Death's house and then when they were found they threw her out in the road and bam, there you have it.
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Post by Generation Mishima on Dec 17, 2003 8:04:54 GMT -5
Wait when you say the guy in the red jumpsuit is the 'FA-guy' what do you mean. Are you saying he's from the flight company and if so why is he there, what's his purpose? Just curious
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Post by raperks on Dec 17, 2003 16:50:40 GMT -5
Ok, I figured I'd just post the answer in case anyone wants to check it out. The year is 1988 for a reason. The part you don't see is that Donnie travels back to 1988 from the present day through a portal in order to change what is an empty and alienated life. This is paralleled in the invention in which babies are shown happy pictures instead of darkness in order to make thier lives better. What he finds however is that maybe, the darkness is there for a reason....AND....maybe what he considers empty can be replaced with something worse. The punk kid in the class says "What if the parents put in pictures of Satan, dead people, sh*t like that?". This is one of the most important lines in the movie. The guy in the red jumpsuit is Donnie(*edit) from the present day seeing what is happening and realizing the consequences. Once you realize that this is what is happening, the movie makes sense.....check it out. The evidence for this is very subtle but definately there. Most notable is the beginning, check out where he is, and the fact that he smiles. He realizes his travel in time has been successful. However, there is a part in one of the deleted scenes where it is talked about as a dream, that is remembered but quickly fades after waking. This is what happens to Donnie, he actually forgets. no disrespect bud, but im not buyin into this theory at all. Donnie never consciously shows any awarness of what is going on. he seems confused if anything, and says he has to 'figure out franks plan'. if donnie has been sent from the future, why are we never shown any clue to this? i believe him waking up in the middle of nowhere at the start is part of his other side (for lack of better description). does he not wake up on the golf course after a meeting with frank? Plus, I'd have to ask what futre he comes from. from the evidence in the film, there is no future. The world ends exactly when Frank says it will. we have no real reason to believe there is anything after.
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Post by Draven on Dec 17, 2003 17:47:44 GMT -5
To EVERYONE:
I think what really makes the movie subjective isn't all the semantics that come with time travel (by the way, if you want to compare Donnie Darko to other time travel movies, don't pick Back to the Future, which doesn't even try to be legit, but something like Brazil or the Twilight Zone episode where the man went back to the 1860's and caused Lincoln's death.
What makes it subjective is whether one refers to just the movie to prove their hypothesis, or other sources, like deleted scenes and RK's commentary. We'd think that we have to take RK's views to heart, but like Stan and Kyle said, once a movie is released, it belongs to the people. In other words, RK shouldn't play god by telling us how to interpret it. Now, I want to dismiss the Donnie coming to 1988 from present theory, as Darkmystic is the largest contributor-
The only justification of that thought that I can tell is that one's memory fades away when they travel back. But if that's true, what's the point of going back? So then, if he did go to '88 from the present, why would he do things like leave his halloween party, to go to the house where he would have known Gretchen would be killed?
As for why it takes place in 1988, there are other reasons besides the obvious (RK being Donnie's age then, and the music he'd get to use) Personally, I'd like to think that it relates to the Delorean needing to reach 88 mph to travel through time, and that on that same night in Haddonfield, Danielle Harris, my obcession, was confronting Michael Meyers for the first time. But seriously, the movie has to deal with the world ending. If it took place now, it would be like Armageddon or Deep Impact, which create that really pathetic suspense of "what if the world were to end tommorow?" DUN DUN DUUUNNNN.... By having it take place in 1988, it establishes that RK's meaning everything to express philisophical views, not attempt to scare us.
REMEMBER THE PSYCHIATRISTS EXPLANATION OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN THE SKY OPENED. I understand that the tangent universe closed at the end, but not to set time right. Frank is a renegade, like Donnie and Sparrow, only he has found a way to control things. He opened the sky on Halloween 1988 to create the evil Frank he would become. He used Donnie, partly because only Donnie was capable of communicating with him. But then, Sparrow would be able to too. Frank is very capable of manipulating people's minds (proof in how he lured Donnie out of bed at the beginning) Frank probably told Sparrow, at whatever she was thought to be senile, to stay outside her house by the mailbox, so she'd be there both when Donnie's father almost hit her with the car, and on Halloween, when here position would cause the "real" Frank to run over Gretchen.
Now, Frank could have just told Sparrow to stand outside on those particular occasions, but by having her always outside, she both serves as a comic relief in the beginning, ("someone ought to write that bitch") and while Frank has to deal with things like Donnie telling others about time travel, if Sparrow is thought to be crazy, no one will listen to her.
Anyway, Frank used Donnie to create the evil Frank who wasn't alive in the physical world, but existed in all times, and could open the sky. Frank lied to Donnie at numerous points: Frank claimed to be omnipotent, and while he damn near was, he couldn't control Donnie's actions, only steer Donnie in his direction. Also, Frank tries to appear like a Morpheus to the padawan Donnie, and Frank did teach Donnie how to travel through time, but it wouldn't do Donnie any good until he had to die.
The full extent of Frank's agenda didn't become apparent to Donnie until Halloween night, when he saw the real Frank, and realized the bunny outfit wasn't just a stupid scare. However, by then it was too late. Gretchen was dead, and since Donnie inherently seems so have knowlege of things that are humanly impossible, he knew that his mom and sister were on the plane that was being ripped apart. Donnie still had a choice, like I said, Frank couldn't control him, but Donnie was being threatened: Either he go back and die, or his love, sister, and mother die. Of course, Donnie chose his own death.
To that point about the real Frank blowing his horn to get Donnie out of the house... no, it's just common sense. Frank dropped Donnie's sister off about 10 seconds before the engine crashed. Frank saw it falling, and blew his horn because he figured it would kill her.
-You don't hear the engine falling, it would be very loud, meaning that the engine must of been exhibiting some irregular properties as it left the portal onto Donnie. They weren't big enough that there would be a lot of winnesses, (i.e. something as big as the sky opening) but enough for Frank to notice. That's why he went home, crying, and started making drawings of the bunny mask, he knew he was in for something bigger. For the rest of the time until Halloween, Frank lived normally, until he was shot. So many paradoxes occured by that time, that Frank didn't die, but expanded the same way Obi Wan expanded when he died: into the supernatural spectrum.
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Post by EricDraven on Dec 17, 2003 19:22:17 GMT -5
Generation,
The "FAA-Guy" in the red jump suit is only a disuise, hes really there to do some investigating, you know, make sure Donnie was up to no good-just checking out the scene,make sure they dont talk,whatever... but personally I think that in the tangent universe, he was meant to disturb the kiss in between Donnie and Gratchen, it wasnt time for it to happen
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