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Post by darkmystic on Nov 4, 2003 16:06:34 GMT -5
Ok, I figured I'd just post the answer in case anyone wants to check it out. The year is 1988 for a reason. The part you don't see is that Donnie travels back to 1988 from the present day through a portal in order to change what is an empty and alienated life. This is paralleled in the invention in which babies are shown happy pictures instead of darkness in order to make thier lives better. What he finds however is that maybe, the darkness is there for a reason....AND....maybe what he considers empty can be replaced with something worse. The punk kid in the class says "What if the parents put in pictures of Satan, dead people, sh*t like that?". This is one of the most important lines in the movie. The guy in the red jumpsuit is Donnie(*edit) from the present day seeing what is happening and realizing the consequences. Once you realize that this is what is happening, the movie makes sense.....check it out.
The evidence for this is very subtle but definately there. Most notable is the beginning, check out where he is, and the fact that he smiles. He realizes his travel in time has been successful. However, there is a part in one of the deleted scenes where it is talked about as a dream, that is remembered but quickly fades after waking. This is what happens to Donnie, he actually forgets.
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Post by Savant on Nov 4, 2003 17:25:07 GMT -5
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
Good post, but I got a question.
are you saying the red jumpsuit guy is the punk or Donnie? I was under the impression that for him to go back in time he would have to go into his body at that time, which would coincide with him going back in time to his bed and dieing instead of being somewhere else when the engine hits. and again with what you say of him going back to his body in the beginning.
I thought the whole reason he has to die is because of this, if him and the engine get sent back at the same time and he can only go back to his body, then he would have to be in bed right before the engine hits.
for Donnie being the red jumpsuit guy-- It's just to paradoxical right now for my mind to think of it. Red jumpsuit would have to be the first trip cause otherwise he never gets to be that old. so when does this red jumpsuit guy go back in time to be on the road with his bike? and how is he observing the tangent if he hasn't gone back to start the tangent yet?
thanks now i have to go out an buy the movie(Was gona do it anyway) ;D
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 4, 2003 17:36:13 GMT -5
Ok, here's why. One of the reasons the movie is tough to understand is that it is not explicitly shown, but there are actually 2 portals. The first one is created in the present day. Donnie somehow figures out how to enter it....how? This is not stated but it is implied that sometime between 1988 and today he finds Sparrows book. We know his science teacher has it, so its not a stretch to think this is true. So, anyway, he finds the portal and uses it to travel back in time. He feels he can then change the past to give himself a good life and good memories. The guy in the red jumpsuit is him, yes. But he exists in the same way that Frank exists, as a manipulated being from the future. Observing what is happening. Don't forget Frank exists in 2 incarnations, Frank is just a highschool kid hanging out somewhere (maybe with Donnies sister...after all that's her boyfriend). And he's doing this at the same time he appears in the movie theatre in another, manipulated form. This is the future, dead Frank. The fat guy in the jumpsuit is the future Donnie.
Hope that makes sense.
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 4, 2003 18:09:12 GMT -5
Roberta Sparrow.
Did anyone realize that she also travels back in time like Donnie? The reason she thinks everyone dies alone is that she did not follow the path given her. Quote from Donnie..."I have to listen to him (frank) or else I'll be left all alone and never know what this is all about." Donnie listens to Frank, but Roberta does not listen to her "frank". She leaves the convent, this is the point that she rejects God's plan and attempts to lead a secular life. This is why she writes the book, and how she knows so much about it all. It is also why donnie writes her "I hope this is just a work of fiction", and how he knows he must die at the end.
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Post by Savant on Nov 4, 2003 19:27:53 GMT -5
I got a question for you Mystic,
I thought that the mother and daughter are safe from the plane crash for a different reason.
The engine comes from the tangent dimension where the rift in time occurs.
On the DD site it has the telephone communication where they say the engine is the exact same as one on a current plane, but this plane never lost any engine.
so since the engine is from the tangent dimention and not the real one that is why I figure the mom and daughter do not die in a plane crash.?
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 4, 2003 21:44:02 GMT -5
Good question Savant. The airplane engine question was a puzzling one. However, keep in mind a couple of things. In the phone conversation, the person on the phone does not say its the same engine, he says it appears to be an exact duplicate. This is a subtle but important difference. You see, in the conversation, the plane this engine is from has never crashed and is still in working order. So the plane in this possible reality never crashed. When you think about this problem there is only One possible solution and even though its waaay out there its the only one that fits. Here goes:
Each possible universe can only have 1 of that engine and if it contains more will become unstable. However, different times within that universe can carry more than one engine for a short time "knowing" that with time it will stabalize itself in the long run. Just as one universe can contain 2 Franks. One from Oct 2 and a dead one from Oct 28.
So, universe 1a is universe 1 in the present day, say (2003). Donnie finds a way to travel back in time using a portal, however, an airplane crashes into this rift and a piece of it, the engine comes through into Universe 2. Universe 2, the unstable tangent universe now has an extra piece, an artifact that it must rid itself of. Because of this artifact it rips and sends what is in fact the same engine (the one from the plane the Darkos were on) through a portal. Universe 2 now has one engine, even though the world subsequently ends, the artifact is gone. Where did it go? Universe 1b. This is universe 1 in 1988. For a short time (12 years or so) it will contain 2 engines. However, in the present day, the same rift will form and another copy of this engine will go through. The fact that Donnie is now dead in this dimension is not relevant since the engine will go through the portal anyway. So we form a loop, but each dimension is now stabilized with just one engine.
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Post by Chris T on Nov 5, 2003 10:50:42 GMT -5
Mystic,
I had considered that Roberta Sparrow had already gone through donnies experience, but i assumed that the universe would have ended had she not followed gods plan. explain.
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Post by EricDraven on Nov 5, 2003 16:52:14 GMT -5
Mystic, no that is impossible, THe guy in the red jumpsuit is not Donnie. Heres why, in real life donnie is dead,the guy in the red jumpsuit is in the tangent universe.And when Donnie went back to Oct 2 1988,he died and shut down the tangent universe.Which means it doesnt exsist,and besides, he died,theres no reason he needed to go back into the "past" because he was there and no there is no more tangent universe.I think you have too many thoughts all in one and you are taking it way out of perspective. Donnie was awaken by Frank,the manipulated dead,to set things up so he could use his fourth deminsional powers and to send the artifact "the plane engine" back to where it suppose to be. Anything water or metal can be an artifact.In the tangent universe the manipulated living drive the chosen one to use his powers,see because something in time is done wrong or wasnt suppose to happen,the portal as you say is opened. The tangent universe is opened and can only hold itself for only a couple of weeks, and will soon consume itself into a black hole.Tell ya what, I really dont have time right now to explain the whole movie but if you have any questions,trust me I know this movie backwards,just ask and I swear I will answer them,for now go to Darko time travel and go to time travel explained started by me,EricDraven,that might help you out....later
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 5, 2003 19:08:31 GMT -5
Eric, the guy in the red jumpsuit is Donnie from the present day. He can exist in the tangent universe, and just because Donnie ends up dying in the real one does not prevent this. By that argument then the manipulated Frank can't exist either because Donnie died and never killed him etc. Watch the movie with the fact that Donnie travels back from the present and it makes sense.
I am interested in your theories on a couple of things however. In your view how does Donnie send the engine back from the tangent universe? He doesn't have the engine with him at all, he's just in his parents car, which is metal I agree but not the engine. Also, if at the end he is not longer in the tangent universe then why does he have to die? How does his death result in the tangent universe not being created? Finally, at the end there are now 2 engines. One that landed on Donnie and one from the plane, which according to the website, is still in circulation. How would you explain this?
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 5, 2003 19:11:24 GMT -5
Chris T,
The reason for this is that Roberta was forced initially back in order to send back the artifact. Just as Donnie was. However, just as Donnie knew the engine was coming and was given the choice to die, as he knew was his path, so Roberta was also given this choice. Roberta, however, did not follow it. She chose not to follow the path, and thus she died alone.
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Post by EricDraven on Nov 5, 2003 21:24:28 GMT -5
ok Mystic,now we're getting into complex questions that I was hoping someone would ask.I like your thought about how thats donnie in the present,and I can see where you're coming from because he can travel in time,but, only the living and the dead can manipulate his path into going back into the past.Even the people in the world of Donnie's didnt even know what they were doing,lets just say its a world that never was and never will be,why would Donnie go into a world that would never be? He has no purpose,and besides there is no evidence within the movie that would back up what you just said. According to Roberta Sparrow, the tangent universe has wierd people in it,as if they are bizaar,like the chinese girl,she is a context clue to keep you guessing until you find out that in the tangent universe,everyone has thier purpose,the whole purpose of everything and everybody was to drive Donnie into going back,see you said that he never had the engine,he never had to have it.What was meant by that,that he had to take it back was that it was like a key,and in order to "send it back",he had to open the portal at the same time it was,because if it went into the black hole,it was lost forever,and notice where it was heading? right were the black hole was,over Donnie's house,when he went back to Oct 2,88 the key was returned to the present world it was suppose to be in,and just like other accounts,it killed the others.The tangent universe is only created when something happens that isnt suppose to,Donnie was suppose to die Oct 2 1988.The tangent universe was created.So his death had everything to do with creating the tangent universe.Because if it never happened,it would have been created.Which it did,when he didnt die.Oh and about the 2 engines, there the same engine,the first one that fell in the room was from the future.
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Post by darkmystic on Nov 5, 2003 21:49:27 GMT -5
Hmmm, that gives me something to think about. However, there are a couple of things that dont really mesh with that theory, maybe you can clarify them. First, if you read Sparrows book, it suggests that tangent universes just occur, although very rarely, and if they do a living reciever is chosen (noone knows how) to close it. I'm with you there, but what does not fit is that Donnie not dying caused the tangent universe. This is why. Frank is manipulated dead. The manipulated dead do anything and everything to trap the receiver into closing the tangent universe. Right? Then why on earth would Frank of all people lead Donnie away from his bed the night he would have died. This is inconsistent with what is said in Sparrows book to be his motives. This is how I came up with the theory (and it is a theory although I believe it to be right) that Donnie must have traveled to 1988 from the present. If this happens, then it is this initial time travel that is never shown that creates the tangent universe. Now when Frank saves Donnies life it is to extend it long enough to close the portal. Now the Frank character behaves consistantly. Also, think about how everything in the movie happens for a reason, and time seems to be the most important construct. This being said, the fact that the movie is set in 1988 of all times seems arbitrary. I mean why not set it in the present? A good explanation of this is the travel from the present to 1988 which all of us see as past. Eric, this is a good discussion. Let me know what you think.
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Post by Pax on Nov 5, 2003 21:51:57 GMT -5
Mystic, I do like the idea that the guy in the red jogging suit is Donnie from the future. The commentary on the DVD (I believe), states that this is an investigator from the FAA, however, and I think he is seen with the other FAA agents at other points in the film. But, I still like your theory. It does fit in its own way, and so do a million other ideas and theories. To state the obvious and the already stated, this is the power and perhaps the point of the film. It is a dream-like, fantastical story that maybe, can not be picked apart and made to "make sense." But it's still fun to talk about and speculate.
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Post by Pax on Nov 5, 2003 21:59:32 GMT -5
Just remembered something I wanted to say. Mystic, I especially like the idea that Roberta Sparrow is perhaps paying for her choice not to follow God's path, and so is driven to write the book, etc. I generally think she is perhaps outside time in a way, she was given this special knowledge and has been waiting all these years for Donnie and the part he will play in the universe, etc. This idea holds a special appeal to me for some reason, the concept of the town "kook" in fact being a perhaps divine messenger, waiting over the decades to guide someone to his ultimate destiny and purpose. But your idea certainly adds resonance to her "every living thing dies alone" comment. Anyway, good stuff. Peace out.
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Post by EricDraven on Nov 5, 2003 22:16:16 GMT -5
Darkmystic, I totally agree with you about why was he gotten out of bed in the first place,and in an earlier discussion, I think I stated and other people too that maybe God or something wanted to show Donnie what true love was and why he had to die,or maybe it was a test to see if he would sacrificed himself for the one he loved.Oh, and I believe exactly what you've said,in an earlier post I have mentioned that everything and everybody does have a purpose to lead Donnie into what he has to do,even though he doesnt know what it is yet,and thats why simple stuff like Frank saying "I'm so sorry" after he asked him what happened to his eye,he just didnt say "oh,you shot me in the eye in the future,by the way that really hurt" If he said that,then yes,it all goes back to the conversation with his Science teacher,he would have had the choice to defy his future.Instead,it left Donnie into questioning "what the hell does that mean" keeping the question in the back of his mind and then when he saw Frank,the real one,it all came back to him,"Frank is from the Future, something is suppose to be my fault about why his eye is missing,OH!!!! I got this nice gun in my pocket" All the rage led into shooting him,but where? the first place he questioned,in the eye. It all led to this dramatic event where he knew what he had to do. Remember when he told his Dr. he had the power to travel time? He knew he could but when? tht was the question that haunted Donnie Darko... I like the way you think Mystic
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