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Post by ProvidencePortal on Sept 27, 2004 8:54:45 GMT -5
Question Re: Roberta Sparrow theory, if she was once a living receiver but didn't fulfill her duty like Donnie, wouldn't that m,ean that her tangent universe would have collapsed and destroyed the primary universe, hence none of the movie's events would have happened in the 1st place? Maybe ... but not if you accept the proposal that, after closing a Tangent Universe, the Living Receiver is faced with the decision to die enlightened or to live on ... and ultimately die alone. It's been suggested that Donnie dies at the end as part of the cosmic equation that governs the LR/TU process ... that, though he had terminated the TU and saved the PU, he could have chosen to live, but that he would have been destined to become as Roberta Sparrow did: alienated and bizarre, reduced only to becoming a component of someone else's LR/TU cycle. If that is the fate of the LR who chooses not to die at the end of his/her cycle, then surely Donnie made the better choice.
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Post by Pax on Sept 27, 2004 19:32:35 GMT -5
While I do think that the trampoline scene (Donnie is jumping w/Gretchen, by the way) is a shorthand way of showing innocence, etc., could it also be that it just looks good on film, especially in slow motion from an overhead angle? Yes, in my opinion.
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Post by Madridarko on Sept 28, 2004 18:12:55 GMT -5
I actually think donnie has to die, because if he lives, that will mean that he is again the living receiver and that the whole tangent universe thing will happen or would have continued living the same life over and over. You see by sending it back into the the tangent universe, he didn't quit closed it. He had just sent it back. Then he decides to change his life right after the tangent universe started and then he must be killed by the artifact because then he would just re-live the tangent universe. he would still be alive and ensurance traps must be placed that way he will return it again.
So by dieng, he sacrificed himself to really close the gate because he himself is the last important piece to the tangent universe. That way the tangent universe finalized and before it got to far, it returned to the primary universe.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Sept 28, 2004 21:08:24 GMT -5
I think that's an intriguing thought, madridarko. I'm curious what leads you to believe that Donnie himself is actually part of closing the Tangent Universe, as opposed to just the the return of the Artifact, as outlined in the Philosophy of Time Travel.
Will you share how you came to that conclusion?
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Post by Madridarko on Sept 29, 2004 18:57:17 GMT -5
Well I think that if you just return the of the artifact would just in some sort of way "delay" the tangent universe. It would just make it happen again, because that rapture in time would still be happening. What I am saying is that if Donnie were to still live, he would just be like the artifact reciever, and he would still have the super powers, so it would be like reapeating what happened in the tangent universe again in the tangent universe itself.
It would all be like a giant dejavu. Because he still has the powers, he would be forced by the ensurance trap into that position he was at the cliff watiching the world almost come to an end.
But alas, this is only my theory and nobody says that it must be true. Maybe I am misunderstanding someting, but this is the way my mind bends the facts to be able to confront a point of view and reason I can cope with.
What do you think about why did Donnie had or didn't have to die?
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Post by gretchen on Sept 29, 2004 19:30:47 GMT -5
madri, have you read the POTT all the way through? it may help to mold your theory.
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Sept 30, 2004 11:32:29 GMT -5
But alas, this is only my theory and nobody says that it must be true. Maybe I am misunderstanding someting, but this is the way my mind bends the facts to be able to confront a point of view and reason I can cope with. What do you think about why did Donnie had or didn't have to die? First of all, I am happy you're here offering your theories -- that's all any of us really have, since the only definitive word on the movie is in Richard Kelly's noggin. All the rest is conjecture, and it's fun to entertain all sort of perspectives. As to your question, there's a thread dedicated to this discussion in which I and several other people pose explanations for why Donnie died -- and whether he had to at all: darkomovie.proboards24.com/index.cgi?board=ending&thread=1095872475&action=display&start=0
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Post by Madridarko on Sept 30, 2004 18:52:03 GMT -5
I have read Philosophy of time travel, but as I said, this is how my mind puts it and I don't say it has to be true
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Post by Madridarko on Sept 30, 2004 19:31:25 GMT -5
I am sorry if I ever sound like I am trieng to impose my ideas, which I am not. I had read the POTT before but I read it again anyways, and I found out that maybe had the choice of not dying, but I still think somehow he had to die. I mean it says in the POTT that "....Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found.
....We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built.
We are told that these things occur for a reason."
and I know it gets off subject, but how do you advance member ranking, and how long have you been a member? Hey nice pittbul, seriosly.
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Post by rightfielder21 on Sept 30, 2004 19:45:58 GMT -5
I agree, there is a "fated" aspect of it, but who is to say, that those other living recievers didn't chose to die as well?
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Post by gretchen on Sept 30, 2004 20:33:07 GMT -5
i had a reason for asking you about the POTT but have since forgot... and I know it gets off subject, but how do you advance member ranking, and how long have you been a member? Hey nice pittbul, seriosly. if you click me you can find out when i joined...i have also forgotten that... member status is achieved by your dedication and contribution to the board... (i.e. how many posts you make)... right now it's twitch, me and IIVII in the lead. keep posting and you'll move right up there! and thanks ;D i'll leave it at that cause if you start me talking bully i'll never stop. (that would belong on the general board anyway, right guys? )
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Post by ProvidencePortal on Oct 1, 2004 8:18:04 GMT -5
I mean it says in the POTT that "....Ancient myth tells us of the Mayan Warrior killed by an Arrowhead that had fallen from a cliff, where there was no Army, no enemy to be found. ....We are told of the Medieval Knight mysteriously impaled by the sword he had not yet built. We are told that these things occur for a reason." I was just going to say that rightfielder21 had made exactly that reference, but he beat me to it above. In pursuit of the answer to the question about Donnie dying, I think both of you have come the closest in finding some textual support. That part of the Philosophy of Time Travel definitely seems to suggest that previous LRs have died under strange circumstances ... and it seems likely that it was their choice to do so. Excellent work. But at the risk of becoming rhetorical, even believing that it was his choice doesn't explain why he chose death ...
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Post by rightfielder21 on Oct 1, 2004 16:16:26 GMT -5
I was just going to say that rightfielder21 had made exactly that reference, but he beat me to it above. In pursuit of the answer to the question about Donnie dying, I think both of you have come the closest in finding some textual support. That part of the Philosophy of Time Travel definitely seems to suggest that previous LRs have died under strange circumstances ... and it seems likely that it was their choice to do so. Excellent work. But at the risk of becoming rhetorical, even believing that it was his choice doesn't explain why he chose death ... The best I could do (from another threads I posted in): There are several things that I base my opinion on... Kelly stated in the Director's Commentary that Donnie could have gotten out of bed, in a round about way... The last few lines of Donnie's letter: "I can only hope that the answers will come to me in my sleep. I hope that when the world comes to an end I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." I believe that Donnie could have gotten out of bed... There was nothing holding him there... I think he came to a realization that he could have never been as spiritually fulfilled and content with himself, as he was while lying there in bed... He decided to go out on top... Throughout his journey in the TU, he quelled one of his biggest fears, dying and being alone, as well as his search for God... Donnie realized he was loved and had the capacity to love... If he were to get out of bed, there is no guarantee he would ever have that feeling of euphoria again... We have to remember, that even before Donnie embarked in the TU, he wasn’t the happiest person in the world, he had some serious issues… He probably had never experienced the feelings that he felt upon completing his mission, and didn’t want to ever lose it… The sigh and smile, before he turns over in bed, awaiting the engine, sealed the deal for me…
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 2, 2004 23:44:08 GMT -5
That is a good point. Donnie could have had the choice to live, but he had never felt so loved and so good of himself and he had no guarentee that that would be the case if he did get to live. He could have also just woken up from what he believed a dream and just didn't want to risk those events happening again if he thinks it was his fault, but he dies smiling because he at the same time has that feeling of being loved and saving the world with him.
I think the only thing I can comparate to is like one of those deep dreams that you wake up from, and they just felt so real, what happened in it, you believe and think that it was real and not a dream, but you realize that it was all a dream. In those cases I just wish to go back to sleep and return to my pleasent dreams, but I rearly never actually achive consolidating any sleep.
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Post by Madridarko on Oct 3, 2004 0:04:13 GMT -5
Well thank you, but I think that excerpts like that are like little clues and other little things that we must pay attention to and will help us understand this movie better. But once again it will only provide help, but will not probably give the answeres to everything. I think that for some weired act of destiny, it is almost as if all fate of previos Living Recievers is to die in mystirous way, it does not nessecarly mean they had no choice. Maby they do, but under the conditions they are left after saving the universe, they seem to choose to die.
The world may never find out the correct answere, or maybe it is not supposed to have one right answere. Still, all we could do right now is discuss within ourselves to try and find a suitable explanation, and be aware of any glitch or little details out there.
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